44 hand....I am lost

[LaggyLou]

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Basically, for betting the turn to be correct, you have to have SB raised with exactly KQ/KJ (both of which now have 10 outs against you, and probably will call your bet), and have the other player have no pair.

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I disagree. SB could have raised with 77, 88 or 99. SB could decide to fold KQ or KJ to a bet because he fears the third player may have hit the A and check-raise. SB may call with the ten outer and the third player could fold a middle pair now fearing that he is beaten by the SB.

[CallMeIshmael]

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I disagree. SB could have raised with 77, 88 or 99. SB could decide to fold KQ or KJ to a bet because he fears the third player may have hit the A and check-raise. SB may call with the ten outer and the third player could fold a middle pair now fearing that he is beaten by the SB.

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Right, he COULD fold 77-99. This is true...

But, again, you have to look at the frequency of these things happening...

For starters 77-99 have to be in his raising range, which isnt a given.

Then he has to FOLD it... also, not a given.

Same thing goes for your other arguments...

I dont have the time right now to do it, but the frequency at which BOTH players have a hand that COULD be folded, given the A is now on board, is small. Add to that, that sometimes they both wont fold these hands, and I think its a check.

I doubt your folding equity is anywhere near your equity in taking the free card, and getting checkraised (the card that is most likely to get you checkraised just came off) sucks.

[Chris Dow]

For what it's worth, the ace should freeze you. Since you have extra outs on the turn (and so likely moved behind from flop to the turn) check behind here. Value betting the river here is lunacy. Since you don't try to sell strength when that ace hits you're gonna have a hard time getting anything to fold on the river so value bluffing it doesn't work either (not to mention the small amount of showdown potential you still have) I wouldn't be surprised if both of your opponents show hands that were defintely calling but were playing a little timidly because they can't beat those trips on the board.

[chief444]

I like it more without the caller. But I think the combination of likely being behind a SB who raises pf and then bets a ragged flop into 4 opponents and possibly being behind the first caller and if not behind still a coin flip or so to win makes me fold here. I may consider calling and seeing what happens on the turn though since the pot is fairly big.

edit...I'll add that I check the turn as well the way it played out because of the outs. If not for the outs I think it's an easy bet/fold.