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#11
03-14-2005, 04:07 PM
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Re: is this turn play correct
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Calling the turn makes it easier to put Hero on the flush draw. So, just calling the turn and hitting the flush on the river kills the action. By raising the turn Hero can get more action on the river since nobody will put him on this flush. [/ QUOTE ] a) I don't think players are quite this observant at .5/1 b) Nobody will put him on the flush because the turn raise with the flush is -EV c) If hero had something like KJ here (no spades), he would love it if the river checked through, fearing a dominated hand [/ QUOTE ] Pumping the flush draw when there is already 12.25BB in the pot is not -EV even if its three bet. I'm not a big fan of pumping draws I would probably wait until the river here but this is a pretty large pot and hero 4.1:1 here. [/ QUOTE ] Current pot size doesn't have anything to do to determine if pumping a draw is -EV from an equity perspective. 
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#12
03-14-2005, 04:08 PM
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Re: is this turn play correct
[ QUOTE ]
Pumping the flush draw when there is already 12.25BB in the pot is not -EV even if its three bet. I'm not a big fan of pumping draws I would probably wait until the river here but this is a pretty large pot and hero 4.1:1 here. [/ QUOTE ] When pumping draws, the size of the pot does not matter. You are confusing pot equity and pot odds. The statement, "I'm not a big fan of pumping draws" worries me.
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#13
03-14-2005, 04:13 PM
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Re: is this turn play correct
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Calling the turn makes it easier to put Hero on the flush draw. So, just calling the turn and hitting the flush on the river kills the action. By raising the turn Hero can get more action on the river since nobody will put him on this flush. [/ QUOTE ] a) I don't think players are quite this observant at .5/1 b) Nobody will put him on the flush because the turn raise with the flush is -EV c) If hero had something like KJ here (no spades), he would love it if the river checked through, fearing a dominated hand [/ QUOTE ] Pumping the flush draw when there is already 12.25BB in the pot is not -EV even if its three bet. I'm not a big fan of pumping draws I would probably wait until the river here but this is a pretty large pot and hero 4.1:1 here. [/ QUOTE ] Current pot size doesn't have anything to do to determine if pumping a draw is -EV from an equity perspective. [/ QUOTE ] I think your splitting hairs you want one or two more players here to pump this fine but -EV I don't think so.
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#14
03-14-2005, 04:13 PM
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Re: is this turn play correct
[ QUOTE ]
...it was worth raising. is this correct in this spot? [/ QUOTE ] No. Just call the turn. And you probably should have folded preflop. K4s is not a good hand, usually more trouble than it's worth. From the blinds or the button, okay, but from MP? I think you are asking for trouble.
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#16
03-14-2005, 04:20 PM
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Re: is this turn play correct
The turn raise was incorrect. You do not have more than the required 33% equity to raise in this spot. Your actual equity is closer to 18-20%.
You have the pot odds to draw. But you don't have the pot equity to raise.
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#17
03-14-2005, 04:21 PM
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Re: is this turn play correct
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] I think your splitting hairs you want one or two more players here to pump this fine but -EV I don't think so. [/ QUOTE ] Why is pumping this flush draw +EV in your mind? [/ QUOTE ] Strictly pot odds. How does pot equity make this -EV.
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#18
03-14-2005, 04:28 PM
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Re: is this turn play correct
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] I think your splitting hairs you want one or two more players here to pump this fine but -EV I don't think so. [/ QUOTE ] Why is pumping this flush draw +EV in your mind? [/ QUOTE ] Strictly pot odds. How does pot equity make this -EV. [/ QUOTE ] Let's say that your flush comes in 1/4 times and you always win when it comes in and you lose when it doesn't. Let's say you win another 2BBs when you hit your flush. So pumping your flush on the turn - 3/4 times you lose 2BB's 1/4 times you win 16BB Not pumping - 3/4 times you lose 1BB 1/4 times you win 14BB Pumping has an EV of 4BB - 1.75BB = 2.25BB Not Pumping has an EV of 3.5BB - .75BB = 2.75BB
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#19
03-14-2005, 04:38 PM
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Re: is this turn play correct
[ QUOTE ]
Strictly pot odds. How does pot equity make this -EV. [/ QUOTE ] Pot odds only tell you weather you should continue with the hand or fold. They don't tell you how to select between being aggressive (by betting & raising) or passive (by just calling). Pot equity tells you this. Do you see why?
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#20
03-14-2005, 04:53 PM
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Re: is this turn play correct
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Strictly pot odds. How does pot equity make this -EV. [/ QUOTE ] Pot odds only tell you weather you should continue with the hand or fold. They don't tell you how to select between being aggressive (by betting & raising) or passive (by just calling). Pot equity tells you this. Do you see why? [/ QUOTE ] I do now. I guess what I was saying was it was still profitable to raise which is different than -EV. Just because it's still profitable doesn't make it +EV
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