99 on the button... - Page 2

Shillx · #11 03-08-2005, 01:34 AM

This hand is a bitch. I have a theory (had it for a long time) that on a straightening (spelling) board you should be quick to raise the flop in a small pot and raise the turn in a big pot with a vulnerable hand. I would raise the turn here (I like the flop call but I would raise the flop in an unraised pot) and cry if we get 3-bet. I don't think we can fold if we do...

Brad

btspider · #12 03-08-2005, 02:00 AM

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I doubt I get 3-bet by a rando 6 very often, but I guess it'll happen sometimes, so I think we're looking at around 4 outs when we get 3-bet, so calling is correct. Without knowing what our outs are, that puts us in a tough place on the river.

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yeah, i know what you mean. we might have enough outs to call the turn, but if we still have to throw away a bet on the river when we catch the flush, we might not have actually had enough odds to call the turn in the first place.

the concept is interesting and i think you might be able to come up with a hand where it actually turns a call into a fold. in this hand, there is too much overlay and we can still call the turn profitably even if it means tossing away another bet when the flush comes in.

do you raise a river 6? fold to a river 3-bet? [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

very cool hand.. i'm favoriting this one.

JDErickson · #13 03-08-2005, 02:05 AM

I like the flop call due to what others have mentioned.

I raise the turn. I'm folding if 3 bet.

smiely · #14 03-08-2005, 09:00 AM

Wow, these are some excellent replies. This hand really made me stop and think, and made Jar and I debate it for a while last night. Here's some more action, and reasoning...

Turn: (8.25 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (5 players)
UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, MP1 bets, CO folds, Hero raises, UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls.

River: (14.25 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
UTG+1 checks, MP1 checks, Hero...

So I did end up raising the turn, since I had a chance to get it down to HU. UTG+1 coldcalled me though, making me wonder what he had... a single high heart, maybe? If I was 3-bet on the turn, I would have called that, and depending on the river, called one bet (for a flush card) or raised (a 9 or mayyyyybe a 6, I haven't quite decided on that, it would have depended on the action).

So, the river. My flush came in, but my 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] isn't exactly terribly strong. Both players checked to me. Not sure if that's weakness, or a check-raise attempt. Check it through and take the free showdown, or is this a good value bet? I still feel there's a decent chance that I may have the best hand, and I might be able to get a lone 6 to fold. Thoughts?

Buckmulligan · #15 03-08-2005, 10:24 AM

Ok.... you raise for sure here on the turn. FOR SURE! I think you lost a lot of value on raising on the flop as it was, but since you didn't, you have to raise here.

Entity · #16 03-08-2005, 10:30 AM

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Ok.... you raise for sure here on the turn. FOR SURE! I think you lost a lot of value on raising on the flop as it was, but since you didn't, you have to raise here.

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Raising the flop isn't nearly as good as waiting to raise the turn here. I won't say it's bad, but it's not as good as waiting. That should be clear.

Rob

Buckmulligan · #17 03-08-2005, 10:39 AM

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Raising the flop isn't nearly as good as waiting to raise the turn here. I won't say it's bad, but it's not as good as waiting. That should be clear.

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I agree. I was mainly saying that if you choose not to raise the flop, you are making a strategic decision to raise on the turn if a blank fires. ALthough the heart isn't a blank, I was commenting that it would be a disaster not to raise here as he innitially planned.

MrWookie47 · #18 03-08-2005, 10:46 AM

Call me paranoid, but I think I like check behind. I would not at all be surprised to see UTG+1 drooling at his computer screen with his A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] X suckout waiting to check/raise you. Cold calling 2 on the turn looks a lot like he picked up a flush draw there as well. Also, why would you why would you want a lone 6 to fold the river?

On the other hand, there are many worse hands that might pay you off (a 6, lower [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], maybe even a K). I don't think you could get a better hand to fold here. I think the high risk of a check/raise here, though, still makes me want to check behind.

Great hand, and I want to see what everyone else has to say about the river. I like your flop and turn play, although I'm not sure I would have had the self control to just call the flop.

Edited for stupidity.

smiely · #19 03-08-2005, 10:53 AM

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Also, why would you why would you want a lone 6 to fold the river?

[/ QUOTE ]

Heh, that's what I get for posting as soon as I wake up. Everyone, please ignore my reasoning for trying to make better hands fold on the river, because it's completely and totally flawed. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

btspider · #20 03-17-2005, 02:34 PM

bump. read this one too guys.