23s,BB, 15/30

[Victor]

Hi Peter,

This is a very interesting and tough hand.

Preflop is an easy call.

The flop is standard until the button call/3 bets. This is very scary as his likely hands are now a higher flush draw or possibly a set. Whenever, I see a player do this it either means a monster or a monster draw. Believing this, I would not cap the flop. However, he could be an idiot with nothing or playing AJ or overpair atrociously. So, I am very inclined to see the river, just not for many bets when my outs have seemingly higer likelihood of being tainted.

The turn is an easy check call as the pot is quite big now and you picked up a gutshot.

The river is another tough decision and I can see a case for any of the 3 options (betting, check/calling or check/raising). I think I like betting out as the best as you will be called by any pair such as QQ or KK or KJ which would be hesitant to bet that river. Of course, when beat, you are getting raised and must call 2 bets when behind while only gaing one bet when ahead.

For that reason checkraising may be better as you gain 2 bets from the button when ahead and may even trap the SB for an extra bet or 2 also. When behind of course you are paying 3 bets.

The factor that swings it towards betting though is that it really really really sucks when it gets checked around here.

[mach3]

What were you going to do if one of your outs didn't hit by the river? Didn't look like anyone was laying down. You had to think you were in trouble on the flop after the raise and cap?

[gonores]

perfectly played, beginning to end.

[Peter_rus]

[ QUOTE ]
I play exactly the same way out of the BB for 1 bet

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually i don't like play out of BB this way. Even if getting the same preflop odds and position.

According my investigations it's clear that weak *flush* implyed odds don't grow and become even lesser when more people in the pot as probability to loose to higher flush or full is more. Also your flopped trash pairs aren't usually cost a coin when it's 6-7-way and not 3-4 way flop.

The same thing concerned with sets. After 4 people in and you have a low set you win nearly the same amount of money as when you have a low set and 6 or 8 people see flop due to straights, flushes and higher sets increased probability.

Though maybe i miss something and position weigh more than i suppose and with good postflop play you can turn trashy suited hands to winners at 15/30 after 3+ limpers. And as i don't limp with trash suited hands regardless on number of limpers i can't say if it's profitable or no. I counted only my blinds implyed odds, not when im in position.

[stoxtrader]

i think TSP "out of BB" means he is the BB.

[Peter_rus]

Then sorry for my Russian origins [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[mmcd]

I play any suited 3-way+ PF in BB for a single raise. It shows some small profit 3-way and way more 4-way.

What are your stats if you seperate out the suited aces, kings, connected cards, 1-gappers, higher 2-gappers, and 2 suited 8 or higher, from the rest of your suited hands?

[Peter_rus]

Q7s-,J7s-,T7s-, 96s-, 85s-,74s-,63s-,52s,42s,32s:

3 way flop: total hands 381, -0.33bb/h, W$WSF 19%, wtSD 23.48, w$SD 55.06%.
4+ way flop: total hands 383, -0.31bb/h, W$WSF 14.66%, wtSD 23.04, w$SD 52.27%

As it quite greater than -0.5 i suppose my defence is valid.

[krishanleong]

The volumes of hands is not overwhelming. Can you get this info without querying the database? If so can others post some more similiar hands?

I really like the analysis here.

Krishan

[DcifrThs]

i like the way you played the hand on the flop, calling and then capping for value.

clear turn play.

but with the button betting the turna fter all the action, it sees as if he has a strong hand and that 2 shouldn't change anything...plus you can maybe get an extra one out of the sb if you think the button will bet...

but the cost of having it checked through is likely around 1.3-1.7bbs depending on the sb...gain could be up to 2.xy bbs, so if he'll bet (hes almost certainly calling the raise) near half the time i'd say check...i think it may only need to be near half because the sb, seeing as he's called this whole time, will probably see the river for 1 bet after you both check and the button bets...

-Barron