Line Check, Please

[Woody09]

my instinct is to push. Based on the "fishy" characterization you probably have him beat. But, I guess fish have to hit sometimes, and chances are that (if he's really that bad) he's on the flush/straight draw...was he??

[mmcd]

when people risk as many chips as Fishy did...

The money is shallow and he's a fish.

[Louie Landale]

Depends what kind of fish he is: is he a check-and-call fish or a bet-and-raise fish? Too bad you have only one hand to figure it out.

But WAIT!!! If you took all his money with bottom set it means he called you down with something reasonable, like top pair, and didn't bet it. That means he's more likely, MUCH more likely, to be a check-and-call fish than a bet-and-raise fish.

Thus, you should fold based only on what's transpired earlier.

But WAIT!!! All the money is now in and don't have to sweat big bets on later streets while out of position. Call, and hope UTG calls and calls your turn bet.

But WAIT!! If you don't like calling the raise then maybe you should have bet out on the flop.

But WAIT!!! Something is seriously wrong if you flop bottom set and DON'T like getting called for all your (small stack) chips. I guess if you don't like that then TPTK is out of the question for you. NL for you is only when you've got a good hand AND the lead, preferably with position, calling big raises out of position drawing to a hand you don't like won't work for you. Bad call PF.

- Louie

[JFB37]

[ QUOTE ]
NL for you is only when you've got a good hand AND the lead, preferably with position, calling big raises out of position drawing to a hand you don't like won't work for you. Bad call PF.

[/ QUOTE ]

I wondered when someone would bring that up. I did wonder about the call at the time.

In any event, Fishy showed pocket 88's for a set. Smart Guy turned out to be not so smart. He called and showed AQo.

Thanks, as always, for the comments.

--Jack

[Kips Bay Kid]

[ QUOTE ]
against fishy it is an easy call i think. he likely has the same as you, but could easily have AQ..since he is bad.
he almost definitely slowplays anything that beats you.
did the other guy call?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think he slowplays only when HU and there are no draws on the board, neither is the case here, he wants to get paid off now.

[Prevaricator]

I think you should fold preflop if you are going to fold on A high flops with no paint.

[nicky g]

"any event, Fishy showed pocket 88's for a set. Smart Guy turned out to be not so smart. He called and showed AQo."

Huh, I thought smart guy would turn otu to have AQ or QJ, but that fishy would have an even worse hand or some sort of draw.

I agree with those that say you should not call PF if you're going to fold when an ace and no other scary card falls. You do not have anything like the implied odds to be calling for flush value.

[Louie Landale]

This reminds me of some folks I've played against who just CANNOT bring themselves to calling limit bets with anything less than top-pair-top-kicker.

Once you've got them pegged then all you have to do is keep betting against them and they can only beat you if they make 2-pair or better. For these folks, calling raises with less than AK is a disaster of the first magnitude: no matter how likely they are to have the best hand (even if the maniac raises and they are heads-up in the blind), then are going to win the pot about 8% of the time.

Thus, OTHER folks can call raises with say AJ, but not these folks.

So the hands that YOU play PF is directly a function of how you can expect the hand to play out later ..err.. how you can expect YOU to play the hand out later.

Its not "is this hand playable in this situation", its "is this hand playable for me in this situation".

- Louie

[kagame]

no paint? wtf
what a moronic post.
do you even know what a set IS?
not ever laying down top pair top kicker is the biggest weak spot a big game NL player can possibly have, imho.

[GameTheory]

How can you say Prev's post was "moronic"? He gave solid advice. The reraise preflop indicated that 'Smartguy' or 'Fish' were probably holding JJ, QQ, KK, A_Q/K. Obviously when you call a large bet preflop, you should have a good idea of what others have, and what you're hoping to hit. Now calling a Re-raise with AK, would indicate that his goal should've been to hit an A, while avoiding J,Q,and perhaps K. (Set).
Whether or not Fishy's raise on the flop was a tell of a good hand-I cannot conclude that from what I know;however, folding preflop or coming over the top is clearly the best play with your mindset.