PP 15/30 Flop Decision

[Turning Stone Pro]

If I checked the turn when the 9 hit, and it was one bet back to me, clear call (obviously).

Two bets back to me? Closer call. I think this comes down to pot odds, so I'd have to do the math. Plus, you of course have to factor the chance that someone is on the nut flush draw or has two pair, and a board-pairing diamond beats you.

I think that if the 9 hit, and it's two bets back to me on the turn, I muck.

$90 when it gets back to me on the turn? Very obvious muck.

TSP

[Apocalypse]

lay down on this big a pot with 2 pair??? am i missing something?

[Noo Yawk]

I tend to pound these on the flop, as I don't want any gutshots or silly hands like that hanging around. I also want to put pressure on any hand like K-10 or such.

[sweetzer]

There is no made flush, the possible straight would require a gutshot JT or a 65, no way can you lay down Kings upon the river.

[Levi King]

OK, the results obviously skew my view here, but you would call 2B on the river even if you think it's likely to get capped? If you call 2B and it comes back to you for two more do you call?

Against one raiser I want to see that the guy has my two pair beat, but with two guys duking it out on the turn and likely to continue the slug fest after I have put in $60 on the river, I'm thinking a lay down is an easy decision.

Not that that's what I thought at the time...

[Levi King]

OK, so this must be a huge leak in my game or advice skewed by the results. Without running the numbers I'll tell you that there's no way I can lay down the Kh flush draw on the turn with this much money in the pot and the chance to get at least one raise in multi-way on the river.

Does anyone else lay down on the turn here? Am I missing something?

Thanks to all for the helpful analysis.

[Barry]

I like the 3-bet here to try knock out those in the middle in case you don't improve, in order to give yourself a better chance to have your hand hold up at the end. That maybe more important than the 2 extra SB you might get buy only calling the raise.

Now having seen the results, those were the exact hands you wanted to fold by 3 betting.

[Barry]

[ QUOTE ]
Question is, what to do if you don't improve on the turn? If you 3-bet the flop and check the turn, it could be two bets before it gets back to you. If the turn card is a rag (no straight possible), I'd certainly lead on the turn and call all raises. If it possibly completes the straight, I'd check and call.


[/ QUOTE ]

If both limpers fold and the button calls, I would almost always lead the turn, if the limpers call, I would bet the turn unless an ugly card hits.

[steveyz]

I'd probably lay this down unless BB & MP1 are nuts. They are not pushing a lower 2 pair here. I don't think your hand will be good more than 5% of the time here. It seems pretty obvious that at least one of BB or MP1 has a set or straight.
If you do call, definitely fold for 2 more back to you.

[Analyst]

The question isn't whether or not your 3-bet would have folded out gutshots, but rather did you go about doing so the correct way? If protecting your hand was the goal, you'd need to try and check-raise, hoping that a late player would bet thus allowing you to make players call 2 cold into a smaller pot. BB would then have been getting 4.5:1 instead of 7.5:1.

On the other hand, it's not at all clear that you need or want to protect your hand. Discounting the paired K, you're still drawing to the second nut flush and with 6 players, you want to pump up the pot for when you do hit a diamond.