Passive Party 15/30 QQ

[steveyz]

I'd say the main reason is the presence of a third player (BB). I'd check-raise the flop to get BB out. If 3-bet, I'd check call unless A or K shows up. If smooth called, I fire on the turn and river.

[bernie]

I believe the example you stated was a HU hand. On this hand, you have to throw a bet/checkraise in somewhere on the flop or turn.

Sidepoint: I dont really see the T on the river as a good semi-bluff card. Unless the opponents aren't that observant. I mean, what hand with a T in it is the hero 3 betting out of the blind with? If I had AA or KK here, someone betting the T into me here wouldn't necesarily slow me down. My main concern would be the other guy here, not the hero. I like it as a value bet though. But Id much rather put a bet in on the flop/turn. Especially when he picks up his gutshot possibility on the turn. Nice time for a c/r.

b

[soda]

Hey Josh,

Glad to hear about your new home!

Quote: "I'm more passive than MANY players out there"

I got a good laugh out of that one!

Anyway, I'm wondering about the third opponent and whether he makes any difference really.

I'm going to assume that the BB did not have a ten and had at best 2 outs. This was my read at the time and it was spot on, so let's roll with that assumption. I figured he had a PP smaller than QQ or a small pair with an ace. As it was, he was even worse off than I thought.

Note that given the hand he did have, I actually make extra money on his calls as he has 0 outs outside of what the capper had.

Let's say he did have 88.

By just smooth calling on the flop and allowing him a card for $15, I'm giving him a chance to win a pot that will reach about 12-15 BB. This gives him 24:1-30:1 odds. Given my odds of a redraw, he still can probably create a large enough pot to justify a flop call of $15. It's very marginal though. On the turn, he's losing money.

This was my thinking during the hand. I thought that the third player had very few outs, if any, and treated it very much like a HU situation where I was out of position against a good, aggressive opponent who had either AA, KK or AK.

cheers Josh,

soda

[soda]

[ QUOTE ]


I'm glad that someone brought up the gutshot, as well as the BB's hand, as he could well have many as 5 outs that are completely non-overlapping with a probable AK.


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I'd be interested in hearing about his possible hands in your mind. Keep in mind that I believe the BB would have bet the flop had he hit a ten. He's just your average PP player.

Thanks,

soda

[nykenny]

[ QUOTE ]
I wouldn't bet out because the frequency a TAP raises AK is high (which then makes this hand impossible to play well), also is the freq. he takes a free card which makes me sick.

I also don't really worry about the BB with the hands that are out there/his line of playing i'd be very surprised if he had a lot of outs.

[/ QUOTE ]

i meant to bet out and 3 bet if raised. with QQ i will only slow down to a flop cap, or some other sort of aggression reversal. slowing down to one raise by the same raiser could lead to issues.

oh, and in a big pot, u should always worry about a third player lingering around [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[1800GAMBLER]

[ QUOTE ]


i meant to bet out and 3 bet if raised. with QQ i will only slow down to a flop cap, or some other sort of aggression reversal. slowing down to one raise by the same raiser could lead to issues.


[/ QUOTE ]


You are way off kenny. 3 betting if raised is truely awful even he may do it with AK.

[ QUOTE ]
oh, and in a big pot, u should always worry about a third player lingering around [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

That statement is so general it's awful. I should be worried when a 3rd player is lingering around CORRECTLY, for that the pot could be any size, it just costs me more when it's large. The times we are leading here i am not worried about him being in the pot correctly.