Pocket 5's Just a good hand - Page 2

Havok · #11 08-30-2005, 08:37 PM

Okay then lets switch things around again for sake of argument. I push, small blind is surely going to call anyways with ace/queen and it's a race. Or I wasn't thinking about trapping and raise a good amount PF. Blinds are 1000, I raise 3,000 leaving me with 1,600 in chips and I've got a pocket pair 3 handed. Do you say I should have just folded. I think no matter how the hand developed I'm getting my money in here. But, I agree, most of the time just push pre flop. So there is no argument there. If that's the case, then what's your point?

KramerTM · #12 08-30-2005, 08:41 PM

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Okay then lets switch things around again for sake of argument. I push, small blind is surely going to call anyways with ace/queen and it's a race. Or I wasn't thinking about trapping and raise a good amount PF. Blinds are 1000, I raise 3,000 leaving me with 1,600 in chips and I've got a pocket pair 3 handed. Do you say I should have just folded. I think no matter how the hand developed I'm getting my money in here. But, I agree, most of the time just push pre flop. So there is no argument there. If that's the case, then what's your point?

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I was replying to your notion about it being similar to trapping with KK and illustratring why it wasn't.

The thing to understand here, is not "I would have gotten all my money in either way," it's to recognize the different effect pushing all your money has vs. calling off all your money with this hand. Remember, when you call an all-in, you can only win by having the better hand at the end. When you push all in, you have more ways to win than that.

Havok · #13 08-30-2005, 08:50 PM

I agree about the kings vs pocket 5,s and understand your point about only one over with king's vs AK. Just, my point of bringing a big pocket pair vs overcard hand should have been better illustrated with lets say AK vs Queens, or Ace Queen vs. Jacks. Because its the same odds for those in relation to my fives. My only point prior is it only takes one ace on the board to ruin all good pocket pairs. Except of course my favorite.... Aces vs Ace King.

MegaBet · #14 08-30-2005, 09:23 PM

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Trapping with 55 is pretty close to godawful.

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Yup.

#15 08-30-2005, 09:37 PM

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I agree about the kings vs pocket 5,s and understand your point about only one over with king's vs AK. Just, my point of bringing a big pocket pair vs overcard hand should have been better illustrated with lets say AK vs Queens, or Ace Queen vs. Jacks. Because its the same odds for those in relation to my fives. My only point prior is it only takes one ace on the board to ruin all good pocket pairs. Except of course my favorite.... Aces vs Ace King.

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You have to push preflop because opponent will fold a large number of hands that are 50% against you. When he folds these, you make money.

AliasMrJones · #16 08-30-2005, 09:42 PM

Worst...trap...ever.

With BB at 1,000 or even 500, you shouldn't be limping in AT ALL. The previous limp where he came over the top was horrible and this limp/call was just terrible.

Havok · #17 08-30-2005, 09:44 PM

I completely agree Noah. I was just in the mood to gamble, and have seen SB make this all in with such garbage hands I took a chance he might have had something like 4/3 or something. Check my other replies. In either case he woke up with a good hand, and I got lucky. But, wouldn't you have callled his all in in that spot given his aggressive table image?

Havok · #18 08-30-2005, 09:48 PM

Okay, I've gotten a lot of replies to this that tells me once again. Limping with 5's is bad! push PF. But, even the calling is bad? Alright you 2+2 ers have spoken. It won't happen again. Happy? Now stop picking on me.

#19 08-30-2005, 09:52 PM

Well, I would've pushed, but I think you get that. Given that I called, or if I was BB, this is a call with any two situation because you're ITM and are getting better than 2-1.

AliasMrJones · #20 08-31-2005, 12:58 PM

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Okay, I've gotten a lot of replies to this that tells me once again. Limping with 5's is bad! push PF. But, even the calling is bad? Alright you 2+2 ers have spoken. It won't happen again. Happy? Now stop picking on me.

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We're not picking, we're trying to help. A key concept in STT"s is push or fold time. When you have less than 10xBB (and here you have about 5xBB) you have to start thinking push or fold. You don't have enough chips to be making plays and the blinds are worth enough to you that pushing and getting a fold without having to win a showdown is a good thing. This concept is absolutely essential to good STT play.