On knowing what's going on...

[deception5]

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if the entire table plays different against us knowing we're trying to be sneaky we have to be careful. in addition, if everyone is going to call down on us we can be raising the turn in hand 1, 3, etc. if they are going to call us showdown we need to have something to show.

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When everyone is calling us down we can just play ABC poker and rake in the money when we get called down by second pair, etc.

[Deamon2]

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if they are going to call us showdown we need to have something to show.

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agreed. we will have to change gears to remain profitable at this table, and can no longer make this play. We can, however, find a lot more value when we have that 8 in Hand 3, because we will now get at 2-4BB out of them.

so what's worth more, those extra calls, or working the scary board? I'm honestly not sure, but I'd tend towards the extra calls.

[MrWookie47]

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if they are going to call us showdown we need to have something to show.

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agreed. we will have to change gears to remain profitable at this table, and can no longer make this play. We can, however, find a lot more value when we have that 8 in Hand 3, because we will now get at 2-4BB out of them.

so what's worth more, those extra calls, or working the scary board? I'm honestly not sure, but I'd tend towards the extra calls.

[/ QUOTE ]

There's a good reason why this post is calld "On Knowing What's Going On..." You have to know what's going on. If you see that what's going on is that you're getting too much respect, run with it (see above). If you see that you're getting paid off, stop bluffing and value bet the living daylights out of them (plan A).

The beauty of constantly being flexible like this is that if you get caught bluffing, it's really easy to switch back to plan A, and you'll automatically be getting paid off more.

[GrunchCan]

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I'm sorry folks, it rules. You can have all the HUD info out there and still not have the slightest clue what's going down at your tables. Some of you are saying "yeah we heard it before, reads are important blah blah blah..." But very few of you actually realixe that when you get your opponents tendencies you will have these moments where you say to yourself:

"Oh snap, If I do this, I will pick up this pot right now."

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Needless to say, but I agree.

[2+2 Junkie]

The other night, I attempted a bluff w/nothing against a tight player who was folding a lot to scary cards. Needless to say, they didn't have it but they defended for the first time all night and I showed nothing. Then, I got AA two hands later and got unreal action because everyone pegged me as a bluffer. The action I got on good hands the rest of the night was great.

[POKhER]

Yeh exactly, sometimes this info can kick you in the gonads.

This is 3hands out of 20k+ most likly? Anyhow nice play.

Button on the 2nd hand i think it is, could have been missing all his draws all night... When you try he may hit and raise and kick your butt.

But needless to say, Reads like this are magical.

I just find concentrating on one table very hard [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] Specially as so many Stars players fold rivers so i never see what they have/Gets me no reads. *yawns*.

[Nfinity]

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this is great dude, if you can be sure about what you're doing working. i've raised a turn like hand 3 w/ what you have and then the river gets checked through or you bet and he calls and all of a sudden you have no cred and need to start playing differently. noticing this is important. when i make a bluff bet/raise attempt it doesn't work the last thing i want is to show it down. "he raised a scary turn w/ KJ? i'm not going to fold to a bet of his the rest of the day". now we can't be our draws, middle pairs, continuation bet or bluff scare cards and the entire table is turning into a thinking player going against us.

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isn't being called down by everyone a good thing? we just need to value bet our brains out.

[/ QUOTE ]

if the entire table plays different against us knowing we're trying to be sneaky we have to be careful. in addition, if everyone is going to call down on us we can be raising the turn in hand 1, 3, etc. if they are going to call us showdown we need to have something to show.

[/ QUOTE ]

The villians that end up doing this kind of thinking end up either completely missing the mark or overthinking themselves into oblivion. Either way they are out of their element, out of their comfort zone and I profit by it.

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i agree, but my point i seem to be failing to make is just to be careful. YOU TOO can think yourself out of the $.

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I hear what your saying. I don't worry about it though, mostly because of what MrWookie said.

There's another reason though. At the tables, when I'm making my money, I have the mindset of a really cocky sonofabitch. I get their money because I play better and think more. It helps me stay motivated because I'm constantly trying to prove these concepts to myself.

When an opponent gets the better of me somehow, not just donking himself into a win, I take it rather personal and I make a special note of it, at the table and later in review. I try and make sure it doesn't happen again.

[irishpint]

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this is great dude, if you can be sure about what you're doing working. i've raised a turn like hand 3 w/ what you have and then the river gets checked through or you bet and he calls and all of a sudden you have no cred and need to start playing differently. noticing this is important. when i make a bluff bet/raise attempt it doesn't work the last thing i want is to show it down. "he raised a scary turn w/ KJ? i'm not going to fold to a bet of his the rest of the day". now we can't be our draws, middle pairs, continuation bet or bluff scare cards and the entire table is turning into a thinking player going against us.

[/ QUOTE ]

isn't being called down by everyone a good thing? we just need to value bet our brains out.

[/ QUOTE ]

if the entire table plays different against us knowing we're trying to be sneaky we have to be careful. in addition, if everyone is going to call down on us we can be raising the turn in hand 1, 3, etc. if they are going to call us showdown we need to have something to show.

[/ QUOTE ]

The villians that end up doing this kind of thinking end up either completely missing the mark or overthinking themselves into oblivion. Either way they are out of their element, out of their comfort zone and I profit by it.

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i agree, but my point i seem to be failing to make is just to be careful. YOU TOO can think yourself out of the $.

[/ QUOTE ]

I hear what your saying. I don't worry about it though, mostly because of what MrWookie said.

There's another reason though. At the tables, when I'm making my money, I have the mindset of a really cocky sonofabitch. I get their money because I play better and think more. It helps me stay motivated because I'm constantly trying to prove these concepts to myself.

When an opponent gets the better of me somehow, not just donking himself into a win, I take it rather personal and I make a special note of it, at the table and later in review. I try and make sure it doesn't happen again.

[/ QUOTE ]

Has this attitude ever put you on tilt? i would think that you'd be susceptible if you're always trying to get the best of your opponenets because maybe you don't wait for ideal hands. I know that happens to me- someone beats me on a hand and i think i need to get them back and i dont wait for the right time and get f'ed again. doh!

[Nfinity]

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Yeh exactly, sometimes this info can kick you in the gonads.

This is 3hands out of 20k+ most likly? Anyhow nice play.

Button on the 2nd hand i think it is, could have been missing all his draws all night... When you try he may hit and raise and kick your butt.

But needless to say, Reads like this are magical.

I just find concentrating on one table very hard [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] Specially as so many Stars players fold rivers so i never see what they have/Gets me no reads. *yawns*.

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I have 21k hands of 1/2 6max since I started at Absolute(MrWookie might remember)

This is from a light session I played this morning(around 500 hands or so)

Button in that hand was open raising from the button everytime with what seemed to be any 2, and folding to any form of aggression postflop. It was rather ridiculous.

[Nfinity]

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Has this attitude ever put you on tilt? i would think that you'd be susceptible if you're always trying to get the best of your opponenets because maybe you don't wait for ideal hands. I know that happens to me- someone beats me on a hand and i think i need to get them back and i dont wait for the right time and get f'ed again. doh!


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For the most part no. If I get mad at anyone, I get mad at myself.

The line where this is "personal" ends at me thinking I'm better than anyone else at the table. Everything else is just business as usual. I got bills to pay, ya' know.