Would you play QTo on the button with 6 limpers ?

[Jezebel]

If you guys are routinely limping in with QTo behind 6 limpers you are losing money. If your rationale is that you could flop two pair or a straight draw, then there are not enough players at a holdem table to be able to give you odds for that.

I will play QT out of the blinds, or I will raise 1 maybe 2 limpers from late position. If I see the flop HU, then I'm firing a bet regardless of what comes. If I don't feel comfortable playing my opponent this way then I will fold it. In short, its really a semi-steal hand.

[Joe Tall]

[ QUOTE ]
Maybe

[/ QUOTE ]

No, not maybe. It's junk.

[ QUOTE ]
but atleast it pointed out an error in lots of the posters play...

[/ QUOTE ]

Just because the other kids jump off the bridge doesn't mean you have to do it too.

Fold that trash.

Peace,
Joe Tall

[CardCuda]

Not unless I felt like donating my money! Fold this! This was a huge leak for me when I first started playing. Both of these hands are complete trash! Fold without a doubt.

[Victor]

i play this hand 100% in this situation

[bernie]

if you do, you better play well post flop.

how your opponents play post flop also is a key to this. there are some games i would, some games i wouldnt.

just learn not to get trapped. which can be an expensive lesson.

b

[Dylan Wade]

There's only one condition that I can think of playing here, but it's common enough to be significant.

#1, Limpers are loose; that is, they're capable of playing hands you dominate, such as Q3, T3, etc..
AND
#2, Players are passive enough that they'll almost always check to the raiser. You'd have to be really sure of this.

Thing is, QTo isn't a great hand, but it's actually going to do well against 6 random (loose) hands (It wins more than 1/7 of the time) brought to a showdown. If you're going to come in on the button here, you want to raise. Assuming the above conditions are met, this will often give you four free cards (flop + turn) which should be enough to give you an idea of whether your hand will hold up. Added to which you're on the button, so playing the turn and river should be very easy (making your win % close or exceeding the expected %)

It's marginal, but I think if you fold when these conditions are met, you're missing out in some value, and an opportunity to add variety to your play.

[tpir90036]

i asked about something similar to this in another thread about trash hands. please consider this warped line of thinking:

[devil's advocate]
ok, so most will not play QTo on the button with 6 limpers but everyone would no doubt play QTs on the button with 6 limpers. this is still a trap hand for newer players though becasue while having the flush to fall back on is nice, if you don't flop your draw but get a small piece of the flop it's still easy to bleed to the river and be out-kicked. in fact, you might actually lose *more* than you would normally lose with QTo when the flushes don't come in. so your EV with QTo would be zero becasue you would fold it every time, while your EV with QTs would be negative becasue you could not make up for all of your losses by hitting a flush (or striaght) once in a while.
[/devil's advocate]

clearly i am not advocating folding QTs....i don't even believe what i wrote up there...but at the same time i want to hear a really fabulous reason why hands like KJs, QJs, QTs are totally awesome and even raising hands in late position, while their offsuit cousins are the plgaue. are they really that polar opposite of one another?

-tpir

[brian0729]

I second that. After reading some of the responses. Muck this hand in this spot everytime. Bad Bad Bad.

[Dylan Wade]

That's a very good question and I'm curious how some of these players who think QTo is "100% trash in this position" would answer it.

[tpir90036]

me too. when i first read the post i thought "QTo, complete trash 100%"...but then i started to think about it some more and i thought "if QTs is a definite play, than QTo can't be that far off", or can it? i am not sure.... i think i will run some numbers to see what the difference in equity is.