Flop A set of aces on a ragged board...

[Stu Pidasso]

[ QUOTE ]
I think there is more value here in slow playing this even accounting for the times you end up losing this pot to a hand you could have folded on the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

When you raise in this spot, you do not want to see anyone fold. The goal of raising for the purpose of getting people to fold is to increase your own pot equity. That is an entirely different concept than protecting your hand. In this spot you want to raise becuase it protects your hand.

Your suggested line of play would have some credence if this were a 30/60 game. Please remember the party 2-4 is only a couple of steps better than the play money tables.

Stu

[ghostface]

[ QUOTE ]
Please remember the party 2-4 is only a couple of steps better than the play money tables.



[/ QUOTE ]

I guess I don't play real money then.

[Stu Pidasso]

[ QUOTE ]
I guess I don't play real money then.

[/ QUOTE ]

I guess I don't either. These can be nearly as profitable as the "real money" games as long as you do not succumb to Fancy Play Syndrome.

Stu

[BusterStacks]

[ QUOTE ]
Thes guys called from relatively early positions pre-flop which even allowing for poor players makes straight possibilities less likely than if this involved higher cards. I think there is more value here in slow playing this even accounting for the times you end up losing this pot to a hand you could have folded on the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, you think that. You are wrong.

[marching_on_together]

You think i'm wrong that's fine maybe i am but it's not as clear as all that it can't be worked
out by theory alone you have to take into account how opponents at this level play post flop and
what they will call with pre-flop. 2-4 players are on average bad but even bad players tend to
play less small cards from relatively early position. What are you protecting your hand from? gut
shot straights? that's true if i call they have the odds to call too if i raise then there wrong
to call that all makes perfect sense, however how often do they have one of these cards? if they
never had these cards calling would be best as you would only be letting in hands which are huge dogs
to you. This is only incorrect in this specific situation if players here will call you a reasonable amount of the time with these
dog hands even if you raise. My guess is that raising in this situation will cause the remaining
players to fold an overwellming majority of the time >90 % and that 95 % of the time they are
folding hands that are huge dogs here. Plus unless the bettor is betting an ace or a good draw he
will also fold a fair amount of the time either on the flop or the turn.

I'm not so scared about protecting my hand because i don't think given the likely holdings of the remaing players my hand
is not that vunerable. I also know hands like KQ and KJ etc will often call a single bet but
practically never call two here. These same hands will call all the way down if they hit on the
turn even if i raise the river. 2-4 players are bad but they are bad in specific ways they still
tend to make correct folds when faced with two bets from the pre-flop raiser on an ace high board,
they willl however make the mistake of calling a single bet with kQ and small PPs.

If this was heads up you might consider playing this differently if you thought the bet'er was betting a hand
they could get away from when faced with aggression, the multiway nature of the pot means you have to protect
your hand more but there has to be a point when protection is off set by future bets than can be gained from
far inferior hands.

If there was no reasonable straight draw possible would you still want to raise?

[chesspain]

[ QUOTE ]
If you don't raise, a gut shot will have correct odds to draw. Raising protects your hand.

Heres a good rule of thumb in these situations

PROTECT YOUR F..K..G HAND!

Religious application of that rule is the hallmark of an expert player.


[/ QUOTE ]

"Religious applications" of any rule is the hallmarlk of a mediocre player. Since the odds of either of the EP players having limped with a 2 or 3 (and then folding to a possible raise) is fairly low, there isn't much of a chance of Hero falling behind on the turn or of his being able to protect his hand from this minimal risk.

Consequently, there is nothing wrong with waiting for the turn to raise.

Here's another rule: "The goal is to win money, not pots."

[chesspain]

[ QUOTE ]
These can be nearly as profitable as the "real money" games as long as you do not succumb to Fancy Play Syndrome.


[/ QUOTE ]

Playing in such as a way so as to win more money than pots is not FPS.

[Evan]

I don't know why everyone is ragging on you for wanting to call the flop. If CO will bet the turn pretty close to every time, then calling the flop is fine.

[Odogg]

I would play this slow and call. It is possible that you will lose the other two but I want them to have the opportunity to make a mistake.

[jthegreat]

There's a fairly good chance that CO is testing you to see if you have an A or a lower pair. If you call, I wouldn't be surprised if he checks to you on the turn. I say raise.