30-60 Hand

[jonnyv]

I would fold to a raise and check call river if an A or Q comes.

[Coilean]

mike,

[ QUOTE ]
here's the way i see it and i dont think it's close. the play is always 3 bet preflop (and almost always from the bb as well!). bet (and once in awhile checkraise) the flop. then give up on the turn (although every say 25%-35% of the time or so you should bet the turn and checkraise like every 5% of the time) with a check-fold. keep in mind you will be checkraising the turn when you hit an A or Q sometimes as well.

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I think you're opening yourself up to massive exploitation if you are going to check fold the turn with no pair 60% of the time after being called by Clark on the flop. He doesn't even need a hand to make a flop call profitable, all he has to do is call the flop with anything, bet if you check to him, and much of the time he picks up 8.67SB for a 1SB investment (if his turn bet wins more than 20% of the time he makes an automatic profit with this strategy). If you check raise the turn every time you have a hand better than A-high, even given a pair or better a whopping 50% of the time (to reflect both those times you hit a piece of the board or had some manner of pair preflop), Clark still shows an automatic 0.5(+8.67SB) + 0.5(-3SB) = +2.83SB profit by simply calling the flop and betting the turn every time you check it to him, folding every time you check raise (a strategy which shows a profit even if he folded the nuts on the turn to your check raise!).

[legend42]

[ QUOTE ]
So how did I play it? How did he play it?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you played it fine- I like the calls on the flop and turn- and his river call was a bit loose. For me, when I bet the turn you just call, that's as scary and probably scarier than a raise. There just aren't that many realistic draws with odds to call. So, it means you have a hand that can play, but doesn't want to risk getting 3-bet.

Whereas if you raise the turn, you're either on a big hand or a move to push me off overcards. Which is why my line was to 3-bet a raise, and check-fold the river in either case. Again, I can't see you calling through the turn with a hand that doesn't beat AQ.

[Clarkmeister]

"I think you're opening yourself up to massive exploitation if you are going to check fold the turn with no pair 60% of the time after being called by Clark on the flop. "

Especially given that in raised headsup pots, I fold on the flop no more than 15% of the time.

[SLEEPER]

Nice hand Clark!

I think I am pretty much 2 for 2 on your hands.... 33 and A10, being slightly different than K10. I guess your raising standards are slightly lower than mine, which is fine, I am not playing at the table, and I am sure you are a better postflop player.... post another one!

[Bartholow]

Imagine, and try to really not think about the current discussion, but just IMAGINE your response to an unkown poster on this board who posts this 30/60 hand:
[ QUOTE ]
A solid player open raises from 2 off the button. I 3 bet preflop from the SB, bet the flop and turn headsup. He raises me on the turn and I 3-bet. How did I do?

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Can you honestly say that you'd just reply "good job, he's probably trying to move you off overcards on the turn, and now he must fold"??? If you get raised on the turn in a situation like this, there's no shame in just folding and moving on.

[Clarkmeister]

[ QUOTE ]
Depending on how things have gone in the past and what we're thinking of each other, I would check the turn here a lot against you. I would also do this with overpairs equally frequently as well.

GoT

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I think this is a mistake. You are going to be giving me a lot of free cards and cheap showdowns if you are checking your overpairs here. AA is one thing, but what about when I have something like KJ and you have QQ, or you have JJ and I have K9s or Axs? You can't give me that many free cards to 3-outers in a headsup pot that has gotten to be a decent size. I called a flop bet. Big deal, I'll almost always call a flop bet here, regardless of my holding. I don't know what "a lot" is, but it sounds like way too much checking, both with AQ/AK and with overpairs.

[Clarkmeister]

"Bottom line is, being out of position with no pair just plain sucks. "

No doubt. That's what makes it so tough from the SB's perspective. On the turn, he has what could be the best hand a lot of the time, but its still a very difficult hand to play through to showdown.

[Clarkmeister]

[ QUOTE ]
No check raisers either. FWIW I think you have pretty big hand here; set of 3's, KK, possibly AA or QQ, possibly you spiked an 8 on the turn, maybe even quads.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd usually play a huge hand fast on the flop. If he has a real hand, he will 3-bet me, then I can raise the turn. If he doesn't have a real hand, I wasn't going to get that much action anyways.

[Clarkmeister]

[ QUOTE ]
Hi, short time lurker, first time poster....takes a stab.

J-10s


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Pretty good for a first post. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]