An interesting hand. Play my cards for me.

[gharp]

OK, but you're ignoring the case where neither of them have a K. I think this is a definite possibility in a 3-handed game with these villains.

[oreogod]

I think overcalls have a higher expectation. If SB wont fold with the str8 on board, raise it up.

[SteveL91]

[ QUOTE ]
I see and agree with what you're all saying. But, if Rob has a good image at this table, and SB is tricky, SB is going to try to exploit the scary board (not to mention Rob's ability to make a good fold). How does one combat what is believed to be a semi-bluff raise? By re-raising. Same concept, here. I agree that we want to show down our jacks, but unless SB is a nutbag he's not going to be able to 3-bet, and it's going to be hard for him to lead the river, so we should get our showdown for the same price.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, I'm not entirely sure that raising a perceived semi-bluff is the best defense in every situation. I tend to be very aggressive when HU and SH, and I have no problem re-raising someone if I think they're full of it. Now, I'm trying to break myself of that habit and go over a few things.

The most important things are the size of the pot and what I hold. If I have a hand that I don't mind folding, then I'll more willingly pop them back; however, the problem I run into is when I pop them back with a hand with showdown value, because I just make it that much more expensive to showdown. Clearly, the hardest part - especially when HU - is balancing the re-raise semi-bluffs/bluffs with the legitimate re-raises.

I was playing a guy HU the other day, and I was working him over. Then, the tides changed and I got my ass handed to me. Why? Because he started hitting hands, and I didn't believe him; a very distant second is the fact that I stopped hitting hands, but it's irrelevent given how recklessly I was playing. I went way too many bets on way too many hands, and it was all for nothing. Basically, I'm just reiterating that there has to be a balance between calling BS on someone and making legit plays.

I'm now starting to force myself to slow down and stop reacting; I make better decisions when I simply act. If my hand has showdown value, I really don't want to risk being capped unless I have a very strong hand. I think this is a situation where hero's hand is strong enough to see the river as is; when you factor in the gutshut, I think the raise is just too risky to be worthwhile.

But, it's just my opinion. I find myself re-evaluating things nearly everyday.

[@bsolute_luck]

reraise.

both of them don't have the K, i really don't think we're looking at AK and i'd be suprised if SB folded to a 3-bet figuring us to be aggressive with top 2 pair and trying to fold him out. and he has a piece of the board or he would not have bet into 2 turn callers. if he is on a stone cold bluff, if we call, he'll probably fold realizing his bluff isn't worth an overcall.

BB bet does not mean he has the King either. i doubt AK, maybe AQ, but KQ might have been a bit stronger on the turn being an ATM-type player.

[Entity]

So here are my thoughts. A straight is on the board. SB is VERY capable of folding a non-K straight here to two cold. He's not stupid, unlike BB, and if I 3-bet I've played the whole hand very consistently with a hand like KJ, KTs, etc., and he would be daft not to realize that. The crux of this decision is that I'm 100% certain he overcalls "playing the board" but can fold rather easily for two bets. Hopefully none of you who are advocating a raise would call two cold in this situation, on this board, without a King.

Anyway. Fun river action.

SB bets. BB raises. I call. SB 3-bets (he has a King). BB calls. I cap.

SB has K8o, BB plays the board, and SB and I chop BB's contributions.

Rob

[MrWookie47]

That's awesome. BB is my hero.

[bozlax]

[ QUOTE ]
So here are my thoughts. A straight is on the board. SB is VERY capable of folding a non-K straight here to two cold. He's not stupid, unlike BB, and if I 3-bet I've played the whole hand very consistently with a hand like KJ, KTs, etc., and he would be daft not to realize that. The crux of this decision is that I'm 100% certain he overcalls "playing the board" but can fold rather easily for two bets. Hopefully none of you who are advocating a raise would call two cold in this situation, on this board, without a King.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok, that's all well and good. I'm assuming SB has the K but not the ace, and that BB is playing the board (that, incidentally, was my belief before I read the results). (By the way, did SB have KQ or king-rag?) The question for me is, is there any chance you can convince SB you have AK?

From SB's perspective, AK is a possible holding for Hero, given the way he's played the hand. I don't think it's possible for SB, and unlikely for BB. So if SB is capable of over-thinking the hand and folding his K, here, then I raise to try and push out the player that's most likely to be chopping with my king. Possible outcomes:

SB and BB both call your raise, and you chop with SB. Your net = +0.5BB

The pot is capped and everybody calls. Your net = +1BB.

SB folds and BB caps or calls. Your net = the pot.

Worst possible scenario, SB has AK and your net = -2BB, but that's true, regardless, as you're not folding no matter what the action.

So, the way I see it, by raising you're risking .5BB (the half you don't get in the chop if the pot isn't capped) to try and win the other half the pot (if SB folds to your raise).

[bozlax]

So, I just re-skimmed the entire thread, and with a couple of notable exceptions realized that everybody went raise-call-call, while I went call-raise-raise.

S**t. When did micros get so passive? (And shouldn't this have gone in SS or HUSH? [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img])

[btspider]

[ QUOTE ]
OK, but you're ignoring the case where neither of them have a K. I think this is a definite possibility in a 3-handed game with these villains.

[/ QUOTE ]

if you 3-bet and SB folds, you gain 1 BB.
if you cold-call and SB calls, you gain 1 BB.

[DeathDonkey]

SB will never fold a King there. I hope you wouldn't either! Most everyone said raise/call/call because there isn't much to debate here. Alot of people gave you good reasons why raising the turn is bad, as well as why calling the river is good. You are trying to find fancy ways to make bad plays and justify them with "aggressive is good".

-DeathDonkey