Trend I am seeing in microlimits

Praxx · #1 09-11-2004, 04:56 PM

Lately I am seeing a trend where people don't raise their strong pre-flop hands - AA and KK especially - take this example:

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is UTG with J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
Hero calls, UTG+1 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 calls, MP3 folds, CO (Villain) calls, Button folds, SB folds, BB checks.

Flop: (4.50 SB) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, MP2 folds, Villain calls, BB folds.

Turn: (3.25 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, Villain calls.

River: (5.25 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, Villain raises, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 9.25 BB
Main Pot: 9.25 BB, between Hero and Villain. > Pot won by Villain (9.25 BB).

Results in white below: 
Hero has Jc Qc (two pair, queens and jacks).
Villain has Kd Kc (three of a kind, kings).
Outcome: Villain wins 9.25 BB. 

I knew the raise was coming on the end. I didn't expect the KK though. Was this a good play on his part, or a bad one on mine?

cab4656 · #2 09-11-2004, 05:01 PM

It's a stupid play by him. Your play is fine. Be happy when this happens. If he had played it correctly, you would've lost a bit more.

TredWel · #3 09-11-2004, 05:02 PM

You played it great. If he played his hand just as well, you would have been out a lot more than you actually were.

afk · #4 09-11-2004, 05:02 PM

You played the hand flawlessly. It's a terrible play on his part. By not raising preflop he lets all sorts of terrible hands in for one bet when he could be getting double that, not to mention KK is the 2nd best hand in the game...

You can even thank this guy for not extracting the maximum from you. As for this being a trend, this has been going on for a long time and it won't ever stop. Some "tricky" players think it makes you more money in the long run, but in reality they're missing out on a lot of extra winnings.

Praxx · #5 09-11-2004, 05:08 PM

Ah, well I've been playing only for a couple months now, I guess I just hadn't noticed it until recently.. I've lost quite alot of hands to exactly this in the past week or so.

Thanks for the feedback.

afk · #6 09-11-2004, 05:14 PM

Actually just today I got 99 on the button in a $.5/1 party game, couple limpers to me, I raised, everyone called. The board got pretty scary with over cards and whatnot and I ended up folding on the turn, but on the river, to players in early position turned over KK and AA, respectively. That's a very rare occurance to have them both limp.

Bez · #7 09-11-2004, 05:57 PM

You won't find any top players who recommend limping with big pairs with any degree of frequency, maybe 5% of the time to keep your opponents guessing. At micro-limits I don't think it is ever necessary to limp with AA/KK. The players aren't good enough to make it worth while.

KingSix · #8 09-11-2004, 06:03 PM

Played mostly 3/6 for the last year on Party, but recently decided to take a break for a month, so I'm doing an individual "200BB Challenge" [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img] and I started at PP .50/1 about 10 days ago.

I've also seen a few of these plays recently as well. Luckly for me, my hand was against the most passive player in history.

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is Button with J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, CO folds, Hero raises, SB folds, BB calls, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls.

Flop: (10.50 SB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (5 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, MP1 checks, Hero bets, BB calls, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls.

Turn: (7.75 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (5 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, MP1 checks, Hero bets, BB calls, UTG calls, UTG+1 folds, MP1 calls.

River: (11.75 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, MP1 checks, Hero checks.

Final Pot: 11.75 BB
Main Pot: 11.75 BB, between BB, UTG, MP1 and Hero. > Pot won by MP1 (11.75 BB).

Results in white below: 
BB has Td Ad (high card, ace).
UTG has 9c 8c (one pair, nines).
MP1 has Ah As (one pair, aces).
Hero has Jc Jd (one pair, jacks).
Outcome: MP1 wins 11.75 BB. 

[img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] Goes into check and call mode with AA on 9 high flop. I love it.

King

afs · #9 09-11-2004, 06:57 PM

as everyone else has said -- played very well.

one comment/question though -- if you 'knew' the raise was coming on the river, why did you bet? ... it doesn't look like you really have any reason to know you'll be raised -- I like the bet & consider it mandatory -- but if you _did_ know there'd be a raise have trouble imagining betting out being right.

... is my thinking incorrect here?

MicroBob · #10 09-11-2004, 07:45 PM

Kingsix - you should be betting the river here.

Since I suppose AA guy was going for a C/R here you possibly saved yourself a couple of bets but failing to value-bet on boards like this will be cost you more bets then they will help you save.

FWIW - I think the failure to raise with premium hands hardly qualifies as a trend.
It's a natural instinct for many fish to think they are getting ultra-tricky by not declaring 'ive got the winner' by raising.

When I first started playing (total-fish, didn't know if flush beat FH or vice-versa) I would ALWAYS slow-play big pairs and trips.
Sometimes it can win a little more than it would have otherwise....but in the long-run you are costing yourself money.