Stud/8 Hands--Am I Jamming Too Much

sthief09 · #1 09-08-2004, 06:14 AM

I've read through the stud/8 section of High-Low Split FAP and I'm screwing around a bit at Party .5/1, trying to figure out how to play. I'm wondering how bad these hands are. Thanks in advance:

Party Poker 0.50/1 (0.25 ante) Seven Card Stud High/Low (8 handed) converter

3rd Street: (4 SB) Hero is Seat 1 with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img](8 players)Hero: A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
Seat 2: xx xx J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
Seat 3: xx xx 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
Seat 4: xx xx K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
Seat 5: xx xx J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
Seat 6: xx xx J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
Seat 7: xx xx Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
Seat 8: xx xx J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

Action: Seat 3 brings it in for $0.25, Seat 4 calls, 4 folds, Hero completes, Seat 2 calls, Seat 3 calls, Seat 4 calls.

4th Street: (8 SB) Hero catches 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero: A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
Seat 2: xx xx J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
Seat 3: xx xx 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
Seat 4: xx xx K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

Action: Hero bets, Seat 2 calls, Seat 3 calls, Seat 4 calls.

5th Street: (6 BB) Hero catches 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero: A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
Seat 2: xx xx J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
Seat 3: xx xx 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
Seat 4: xx xx K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

Action: Seat 4 bets, Hero raises, Seat 2 folds, Seat 3 calls, Seat 4 calls.

6th Street: (12 BB) Hero catches 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero: A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
Seat 3: xx xx 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
Seat 4: xx xx K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

Action: Seat 4 bets, Hero raises, Seat 3 calls, Seat 4 calls.

7th Street: (18 BB) Hero catches 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
Seat 4 checks, Hero bets, Seat 3 calls, Seat 4 calls.

Final Pot: 21 BB
Main Pot: 21 BB, between Hero, Seat 3 and Seat 4.

 Is raising a guy on 5th who paired his doorcard too much? I feel that sometimes I'm ahead, usually aces-up will be good, and I have lots of backdoor draws. I'm trying to get it heads up. 

Party Poker 0.50/1 (0.25 ante) Seven Card Stud High/Low (7 handed) converter

3rd Street: (3.50 SB) Hero is Seat 1 with 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img](7 players)Hero: 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
Seat 2: xx xx Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
Seat 3: xx xx J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
Seat 4: xx xx A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
Seat 5: xx xx A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
Seat 6: xx xx 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
Seat 7: xx xx 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

Action: Seat 7 brings it in for $0.25, Hero calls, Seat 2 calls, Seat 3 calls, Seat 4 calls, Seat 5 calls, Seat 6 calls.

4th Street: (7 SB) Hero catches 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (7 players)
Hero: 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
Seat 2: xx xx Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
Seat 3: xx xx J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
Seat 4: xx xx A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
Seat 5: xx xx A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
Seat 6: xx xx 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
Seat 7: xx xx 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

Action: Seat 4 checks, Seat 5 checks, Seat 6 checks, Seat 7 checks, Hero bets, Seat 2 folds, Seat 3 calls, Seat 4 folds, Seat 5 calls, Seat 6 calls, Seat 7 calls.

5th Street: (6 BB) Hero catches 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (5 players)
Hero: 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
Seat 3: xx xx J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
Seat 5: xx xx A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
Seat 6: xx xx 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
Seat 7: xx xx 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

Action: Seat 5 checks, Seat 6 checks, Seat 7 bets, Hero calls, Seat 3 calls, Seat 5 calls, Seat 6 calls.

6th Street: (11 BB) Hero catches T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (5 players)
Hero: 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
Seat 3: xx xx J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
Seat 5: xx xx A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
Seat 6: xx xx 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
Seat 7: xx xx 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

Action: Seat 5 checks, Seat 6 bets, Seat 7 calls, Hero calls, Seat 3 calls, Seat 5 calls.

7th Street: (16 BB) Hero catches 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (5 players)
Seat 5 checks, Seat 6 bets, Seat 7 folds, Hero calls, Seat 3 raises, Seat 5 folds, Seat 6 3-bets, Hero caps, Seat 3 calls, Seat 6 calls.

Final Pot: 28 BB
Main Pot: 28 BB, between Hero, Seat 3 and Seat 6.

 I capped the river for value, as it looked like Seat 3 was going high. Looking at his board though, he could really have anything. If my math is right, I need to be 40% sure I'll win the low to make my cap correct. Will I win it 40% of the time? 

Party Poker 0.50/1 (0.25 ante) Seven Card Stud High/Low (7 handed) converter

3rd Street: (3.50 SB) Hero is Seat 1 with 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img](7 players)Hero: 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
Seat 2: xx xx Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
Seat 3: xx xx J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
Seat 4: xx xx A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
Seat 5: xx xx A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
Seat 6: xx xx 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
Seat 7: xx xx 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

Action: Seat 7 brings it in for $0.25, Hero calls, Seat 2 calls, Seat 3 calls, Seat 4 calls, Seat 5 calls, Seat 6 calls.

4th Street: (7 SB) Hero catches 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (7 players)
Hero: 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
Seat 2: xx xx Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
Seat 3: xx xx J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
Seat 4: xx xx A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
Seat 5: xx xx A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
Seat 6: xx xx 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
Seat 7: xx xx 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

Action: Seat 4 checks, Seat 5 checks, Seat 6 checks, Seat 7 checks, Hero bets, Seat 2 folds, Seat 3 calls, Seat 4 folds, Seat 5 calls, Seat 6 calls, Seat 7 calls.

5th Street: (6 BB) Hero catches 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (5 players)
Hero: 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
Seat 3: xx xx J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
Seat 5: xx xx A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
Seat 6: xx xx 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
Seat 7: xx xx 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

Action: Seat 5 checks, Seat 6 checks, Seat 7 bets, Hero calls, Seat 3 calls, Seat 5 calls, Seat 6 calls.

6th Street: (11 BB) Hero catches T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (5 players)
Hero: 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
Seat 3: xx xx J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
Seat 5: xx xx A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
Seat 6: xx xx 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
Seat 7: xx xx 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

Action: Seat 5 checks, Seat 6 bets, Seat 7 calls, Hero calls, Seat 3 calls, Seat 5 calls.

7th Street: (16 BB) Hero catches 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (5 players)
Seat 5 checks, Seat 6 bets, Seat 7 folds, Hero calls, Seat 3 raises, Seat 5 folds, Seat 6 3-bets, Hero caps, Seat 3 calls, Seat 6 calls.

Final Pot: 28 BB
Main Pot: 28 BB, between Hero, Seat 3 and Seat 6.
Party Poker 0.50/1 (0.25 ante) Seven Card Stud High/Low (6 handed) converter

3rd Street: (3 SB) Hero is Seat 2 with 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img](6 players)Seat 1: xx xx A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
Hero: 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
Seat 3: xx xx 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
Seat 4: xx xx 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
Seat 5: xx xx K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
Seat 6: xx xx 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

Action: Seat 3 brings it in for $0.25, Seat 4 calls, Seat 5 calls, Seat 6 calls, 1 fold, Hero completes, Seat 3 calls, Seat 4 calls, Seat 5 calls, Seat 6 calls.

4th Street: (8 SB) Hero catches A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (5 players)
Hero: 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
Seat 3: xx xx 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
Seat 4: xx xx 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
Seat 5: xx xx K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
Seat 6: xx xx 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

Action: Hero bets, Seat 3 calls, Seat 4 calls, Seat 5 raises, Seat 6 3-bets, Hero caps, Seat 3 calls, Seat 4 calls, Seat 5 calls, Seat 6 calls.

5th Street: (14 BB) Hero catches 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (5 players)
Hero: 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
Seat 3: xx xx 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
Seat 4: xx xx 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
Seat 5: xx xx K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
Seat 6: xx xx 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

Action: Seat 5 bets, Seat 6 calls, Hero raises, Seat 3 calls, Seat 4 folds, Seat 5 3-bets, Seat 6 caps, Hero calls, Seat 3 calls, Seat 5 calls.

6th Street: (30 BB) Hero catches 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero: 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
Seat 3: xx xx 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
Seat 5: xx xx K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
Seat 6: xx xx 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

Action: Seat 6 checks, Hero bets, Seat 3 calls, Seat 5 raises, Seat 6 calls, Hero 3-bets, Seat 3 calls, Seat 5 caps, Seat 6 calls, Hero calls, Seat 3 calls.

7th Street: (46 BB) Hero catches T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
Seat 6 bets, Hero calls, Seat 3 folds, Seat 5 calls.

Final Pot: 49 BB
Main Pot: 49 BB, between Hero, Seat 5 and Seat 6.

 My main concern here is on 6th street. I have a made 85 low, and a pair with an ace kicker. it looks like I'm drawing dead on the high end, and I'm against 2 hands that seem to be going low. Will I win the low often enough to jam here?

Andy B · #2 09-08-2004, 11:39 AM

I think I'd rather see three separate posts. Or four, since you seem to like the second hand so much.

The first hand I don't know about. Try to have a better kicker next time. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] The completion on third street and the bet on fourth street are good. On fifth, what do you figure the other guy started with? I can't think of anything that I'd play against a raise from an Ace (he can't be rolled-up). There were a couple of clubs out on third, so he probably doesn't have a three-flush. Maybe he has a pair in the hole, but I think his most likely hand is split Kings, even though another King has shown. If you think that his range of possible hands is sufficiently broad, raising to get it heads-up is probably a good idea, given that there is a decent amount of money in the pot. The bad news is that the other guy didn't fold. The good news is that the guy with the Kings didn't three-bet. You're probably behind.

On sixth street, you catch a really scary looking card, and the guy with the Kings bets into you. The guy behind you didn't fold for two bets on fifth street, and especially since he appears to have caught good, I think it is wildly optimistic to think that he's going to fold to your puny raise on sixth street. You need to catch. I'd just call.

Of course you bet the river. Hope you won.

Second hand: with a three-card low this strong, I favor completing on third street, especially since the field appears to be quite loose. Bet fourth, call fifth, call sixth. On the river, I'd probably raise the first time around (good thing seat 7 folded). Calling to make sure you get overcalls is fine, but I think that people will be calling on hope, even if you raise. I think capping is quite reasonable. I would expect your hand to be good a significant majority of the time. Your opponents shouldn't have lows to have played the way they did, but I wouldn't be surprised by much of anything.

I play the third hand exactly the same. On sixth street, you have the current nuts for low, and you have a reasonable re-draw. The other guys are probably drawing to beat your Eight, but you have some chance to hit a better hand than theirs even if they catch. Several of the cards you need to improve have shown, and there are probably a couple of them among your opponents' hole cards, but I wouldn't apologize if you hit. When you don't improve, just call, and hope it isn't raised behind you.

Mark Walkley · #3 09-08-2004, 11:39 AM

Hand 1 - " Is raising a guy on 5th who paired his doorcard too much?"

IMO probably - you have to catch runner-runner for either a good high or low here. I do think you want to see another card though. It would also be worried that seat 3 is drawing 1 card to a low on 5th while you still need 2.

Hand 2 - on 5th you brick and seat 7 catches what may be a low made hand. On 6th you brick again and seat 7 catches another good looking card. I would probably have given up the chase by now with no high possibilities. On 7th you make a low and seat 7 folds (?? what were they chasing)

[This game seems really good [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] ]

at which point I think you are correct to jam 'cos you
probably have the low half.

Hand 3 - on 6th noone else has a low but anyone who makes one on 7th is probably beating you, unless you redraw
better. I probably wouldnt have capped it here but you
may still be good. On 7th it's hard to know if seat 6
has made the low or improved the hi so you probably have
to pay them off.

$.02
M.