Commerce 10-20 NL 88 hand

[OnEyedJaCks]

this almost indentical situation occured at my table not to long ago the person with the set bet out and was raised since his opponnent was playing a little crAZY (which isn't bad) he moved all in to try get him off of his one spade in the hold. it turns out he held the nuts on the flop and the board didn't pair, but the same suit hit on the turn which if he had just checked on the flop he could have gotten away from his hand.

[GimmeDaWatch]

Just wondering why nobody thinks its feasible that villain has a small flush here? It may not be likely, but wouldnt alot of players play a flopped non-nut flush in this straightforward manner, not wanting to give their opponent a cheap draw at a 4th club? This is a pretty unclear situation, but calling check-raising the turn when a non-club hits sounds like the best line if folding is out of the question.

[turnipmonster]

[ QUOTE ]
Just wondering why nobody thinks its feasible that villain has a small flush here?

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree, I think it's more feasible simply because people love to call raises with hands like small suited connectors and anyone who can play worth a lick is going to be dumping a lot of ace face combos to a raise.

and if villian does have a flush, diablo may have as many as 14 outs going into the turn.

--turnipmonster

[turnipmonster]

I was thinking about that hand you posted a while back where it was same situation, out of position with top set and monotone flop. I think the call is the best play here, and in retrospect I think it may have been the best play then as well, although at the time I said push.

--turnipmonster

[DerrekL]

I'd call, but what do you do on the turn? Let's say a club doesn't come and you don't make a boat. What do you do? Check. If he bets 1/2 the pot what do you do? How about if he bets the pot?

[turnipmonster]

well, if hero happens to get a read then I think betting the pot on the turn can be a viable option. villian would be making a huge mistake by calling on the turn with a lone club.

[Matt Flynn]

i've learned some interesting things reading this thread. most notably that "fucker" is not weeded out by the censor.

why are there censors on 2+2? whose timid little eye-ears are "We" supposedly protecting? seriously.


hand strength is always relative. Diablo has the 46th nut with 1 out to the nuts (vs. a redraw) and a few outs to the second nuts. he is also out of position. his hand is stinky-poo (that's for the censor). he is wrong to raise unless he reads his opponent for a non-flush and is correct over 70% of the time (see why his read has to be better than [one minus his out odds vs. a flush]?) (his opponent can just call then make him face a monster bet on the turn if the board doesn't pair). if he makes that read, he should raise. if he knows his opponent has the flush with high certainty and he won't get paid off if the board pairs, he should fold. his hand is, again, stinky-poo. and it's out of position. it is a dingleberry. yes it's top set, but it is a dingleberry.

so Diablo's got a non-math decision to make, and it's for many of the marbles. if you don't read well, you do well to adjust play to avoid tough decisions. however, you cannot avoid this one. there's no preflop or flop trick to get him out of this one. so, time to make a decision. if he's not sure but likely can get more info (or get paid off if he hits the full house), his best strategy is to call. you can say fold, but raising absent a solid read is suicide. the stacks too deep to assume anything about his opponent's hand.

so D, did you get the fucker?

matt

[Matt Flynn]

call to buy information. if you're not going to get info, you are usually better off folding unless your opponent is hyperaggressive or will pay you off if you hit the boat. if he'll stack off with a flush, your call is justified by the draw alone. but if it's in the murky middle and the board comes an offsuit jack or other blankish card, and you called the flop and are still not sure, there remain situations for check-calling, check-folding and betting out small or large.

matt

[srblan]

Is there anyway you could put him on an underset? Set-over set might be the best-case scenario for you, since he'd be drawing to a one-outer, and if he can't put you on the flush, he might be happy to put most or all of his money in on the flop (depends on how weak he is, of course - though I think it might be hard to put someone on a flush who had raised preflop and then bet the flop when the flush hit)...

[Matt Flynn]

forgot this statement:

sets on a monotone flop aren't much stronger than flushes with the board paired. if you get a lot of action, you're beat unless your opponent plays very badly.