Party $50+5 tourney, 850 players

[JNash]

I'd appreciate any comments on this hand:

At this point there were about 30 players left (out of 850), places 25-30 paid $255. Average stack = 28000, Blinds 1500/3000, Hero has 17600 chips (~6x big blind). I'd been playing tight/aggressive since joining this table about 20 hands prior. Play at the table had been quite tight.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t3000 (10 handed)

SB (t44199)
BB (t10608)
UTG (t8406)
UTG+1 (t54358)
UTG+2 (t50030)
MP1 (t24686)
MP2 (t43276)
MP3 (t13210)
Hero (t17608)
Button (t5166)

Preflop: Hero is CO with K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, <font color="CC3333">Hero raises to t9900</font>, Button folds, SB folds, <font color="CC3333">BB raises to t10608 (All-In)</font>, Hero calls t708.

Flop: (t22716) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(2 players, 1 all-in)</font>

Turn: (t22716) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(2 players, 1 all-in)</font>

River: (t22716) J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(2 players, 1 all-in)</font>

Final Pot: t22716

Questions:
1) given the short stack, was KTo in cutoff a decent enough hand to open-raise?
2) Is betting 3x the BB the right amount, or should I have gone in for only 2x? (3x basically commits me to the pot)
3) Open-raising from the button pegs you for a blind-steal. Would I have been better off trying an open-raise from MP with worse cards than this (i.e. on a bluff or semi-bluff)?

Thanks for your suggestions.

[Chief911]

Let me be the first to say what is commonly said around here. If your stack is less than 10x the BB, and you are going to raise, you have to push. Your 3xBB looks like any ole regular steal, and someone else small stacked sees their chance to take some chips. You push and he might give you a bit more respect, and choose a different time.

That said, I think you had a good spot to make that move, but just made the wrong move. Many people (Myself included) would consider pushing with any two cards here to take the blinds. Going 3xBB just asked for trouble with your stack.

Nick

[davidross]

I can't imagine any play other than all-in for you here. More than likely it doesn't change the results of this hand, but you are going to have to double up soon to have any chance to move up. You have already let your stack get too small. THe reason peole suggest you play all-in or fold once you are below 10 big blinds is because you want some chance that your opponents will fold, allowing you to make the move with less than premium hands. Once you are down to 5 BB's you will get called by a lot of hands, which means the hands you raise with must be better.

I think you made the right move here, but I'd like to know if you had been blinded down to your current position or did you just lose a pot which left you with 6BB's? If you were blinded down you waited too long.

[Tosh]

[ QUOTE ]

If you were blinded down you waited too long.

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't agree with that, theres no need for a reckless all in and with 6 BB you still have something to work with.

[mrjetguy]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

If you were blinded down you waited too long.

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't agree with that, theres no need for a reckless all in and with 6 BB you still have something to work with.

[/ QUOTE ]
I agree, when you are still at a 10 handed table you should wait for a moderate hand. Remember that by making the top 30 he ensured a higher payout. A 6x BB raise will still get a lot of respect, 2 of the three people left to act would have to go all-in to call. Like others said the steal is the right move to make, but an all-in would be better.

[JNash]

Thanks for the advice, y'all. Sounds like pushing allin would have been better. The result, btw: BB had QTs (my KTo was a 2:1 favorite) and hit the Q on the flop and crippled me--I was out 2 hands later.

One more question, though. At this point in the tourney with a short stack of 6x, it sounds like you recommend open-raising allin or folding as the only two possible plays.

Q1) If you're getting only sub-par hands that you wouldn't want to play from that position, do you:
a) pick a spot to go allin w/ a stone cold bluff
b) wait for a semi-playable hand
c) wait and pray for your luck to change
(I would think that option b is best),

Q2) Which of these is the best approach for playing a hand that will probably be beat if called:
a) Allin from EP, because it signals strength (but far higher chance of running into a real hand).
b) Allin from MP, because it still doesn't look like a steal, but you have fewer players to come.
c) Allin from LP, because there are yet fewer players to come (but the blinds are more likely to think you're stealing)
d) Go allin when the two shortest stacks are in the blinds, as they are least likely to defend
e) any other strategies I should know about?

P.S.: I've been playing mostly SNG's, so I am not used to having only 6x with 10 players at the table...still learning how to play MTTs.

[TStoneMBD]

im not very experienced with MTT, but i am with STT, and this is more of a STT question since it is final table. Knowing that to answer your questions:

There is no definitive answer as to what you should be pushing with, because, if there was... everyone would counterstrategy your tactics. When to push is a cat and mouse game. It is dependant upon your table image, how tight the table is, and other factors. Experience is the only tool to decide when to push in these scenarios, but I recommend the following specific tips:

If you push from EP with a SS of no more than 5x the BB, you are going to be called by chip leaders with substantial stacks because your allin looks to be an act of desperation, as it usually is at this stage in a tournament. Players will go allin UTG with 3x the BB with K7o because they cant survive another orbit.

Blind steals are more likely to be successful in late position when only SS are left to act behind you. Noone wants to call allins with a SS, they want to be doing the allining themselves. A SS is unlikely to call you with a holding worse than acehigh, a pair, or a big king. Even if he is fed up with you raising his blind, he is unlikely to risk his chips on a Qhigh.

In order to stay alive in this tournament youre going to have to win the blinds at least once an orbit, preferably more. Going allin with a Jhigh against SS is something I wouldnt recommend, but you can easily get away with it. If they call you, you are probably looking at a 40/60 underdog which isnt much better than being a 60/40 favorite. noone wants to put their tournament life at stake on a marginal coin flip. take advantage of that... but when you do get called youre clearly better off being the favorite.