Flopped two pair - when to let up on the gas?

TredWel · #1 08-28-2004, 09:29 PM

Got a feeling I was too aggressive on this hand. Should I call down the river, even though it looks like it's going to be capped anyway?

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is CO with J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
3 folds, MP2 calls, 1 fold, Hero raises, 1 fold, SB calls, BB calls, MP2 calls.

Flop: (8 SB) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, BB checks, MP2 checks, Hero bets, SB calls, BB calls, MP2 calls.

Turn: (6 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, BB checks, MP2 bets, Hero raises, SB calls, BB 3-bets, MP2 calls, Hero caps, SB calls, BB calls, MP2 calls.

River: (22 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, BB bets, MP2 raises, Hero 3-bets, SB folds, BB caps, MP2 calls, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 34 BB
Main Pot: 34 BB, between BB, MP2 and Hero.

Entity · #2 08-29-2004, 02:20 AM

When you cap the turn and he comes out and bets, he may as well yell into a bullhorn: "I DON'T CARE IF YOU HAVE TOP TWO!" Unless you've got a read on him as a superlag, I call down after that. 44 seems odd but not unlikely; did you run into a set?

Rob

SoCalPat · #3 08-29-2004, 03:05 AM

The presence of a third player in the hand should've given you enough reason to slow down sooner than you did.

That said, this is an awfully strange hand. I think you could legitimately put the BB on a hand since he called your raise -- some won't 3-bet with JJ (I'm not one of them) -- but many will.

If MP2 has 22, he left an awful lot of bets on the board by not raising the flop. But then he bets out the turn when a blank hits? Would he really have played 44 after the flop?

The river play was bad. If you know it's going to be capped, your two pair in all likelihood isn't strong enough and you should fold, not reraise. I'd call two cold here, but no way in hell do I reraise unless I'm absolutely sure I'm up against two players who have no intent but to give their money away.

The turn cap wasn't good. I'll get into a raising war on the flop with top two, but I'll slow down on the flop if my opponent is still aggro.

Bet the flop and raise the turn when bet into. But when it's reraised by a third player, you can no longer afford to be the aggressor in this pot.

Webster · #4 08-29-2004, 07:15 AM

[ QUOTE ]
The presence of a third player in the hand

[/ QUOTE ]

THAT is one thing many people miss. When all of a sudden the betting pattern changes. ALERT!!! SOmebody hit something and is not shy about showing it.

SoCalPat say it all! Thanks for sharing the hand - interesting.

TredWel · #5 08-29-2004, 09:40 AM

Results in white below: 
BB shows 4c 4s (three of a kind, fours).
MP2 shows Kd 7c (two pair, kings and sevens).
Hero shows Jc Ks (two pair, kings and jacks).
Outcome: BB wins 34 BB. 

After I get bet into by MP2 and 3-bet cold by BB, I didn't know what to think. I couldn't imagine a 4 helping out both players, and I figured the odds of a set (either twos or fours) to be small. I couldn't imagine what they hit in order to both become so aggressive.

Thanks for your replies.