Why Do No-Limit Players Suck In Limit

[cepstrum]

Hi Erostratus -

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say its because the pots are much bigger relative to the bet size in limit. This causes lots of tricky situations where firing a bet or folding a second-best hand isn't always the right thing to do. In no-limit, you can make the pot/bet ratio as big or as small as you want to, and so can your opponents. So in a sense the pot is always potentially small. And when the pot is small, firing a bet and folding mediocre hands is often correct.

So I'm saying pot size. Mediocre no-limit players don't understand how pot size affects strategy in limit, so they often end up shedding chips one ill-advised bet and fold at a time.

The luck factor in limit is also singificantly higher than in no-limit, and again this is a consequence of larger pots. Those calling stations that you can cream in no-limit by inducing a single bad call aren't making nearly as big a mistake when they do the same thing in limit.

Anyway, whether these observations apply to you or not, I can't say. But not understanding how the size of the pot impacts your strategy is a major killer, and if you really are having problems, you should start to think more about how to play in large (relative to bet size) pots.

Good Luck

Cepstrum

[Baseballa19]

This is true, but the hand that's the favorite pre-flop may not be the best hand after the turn. The more players that stay in, the more likely it is that someone gets a better hand.

[turnipmonster]

preflop: NL players place a premium on position and hands with large implied odds, and will often call raises with hands like suited connectors that won't hit enough to make up the loss from cold calling in a limit game.

postflop: NL players don't place a lot of value on hands like one pair, since in NL it's not a very good hand. also, they overestimate what their opponents are calling them with and miss value bets, particularly on the river. also they may make incorrect folds with non nut draws in multiway pots.

generally: in NL folding a hand like one pair when you seem to be beat is never really a disaster because you're usually getting only 2 to 1. so your read in that situation is important, i.e. you have to be right a larger amount of the time to show a profit. in limit games when you are getting like 14 to 1 on the river, almost no one can read someone accurately enough to fold a hand that has a chance of winning.

also, bluffing is much less prevalent in limit.

in NL you worry about building the pot, betting yourself out of the pot, being pot committed or pot committing your opponent, etc. it's just a different set of variables strategically.

--turnipmonster

[1800GAMBLER]

Any good NL player who sucks at limit just sucks at poker, period. If he really was a good NL player he'd understand poker and be able to adjust to limit.

[Baseballa19]

[ QUOTE ]
Any good NL player who sucks at limit just sucks at poker, period. If he really was a good NL player he'd understand poker and be able to adjust to limit.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for the well thought out imput.

[Sundevils21]

[ QUOTE ]
This is true, but the hand that's the favorite pre-flop may not be the best hand after the turn. The more players that stay in, the more likely it is that someone gets a better hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

thats how you make money at poker, people playing and calling with worse hands than yours. Is it ever correct to make a HUGE preflop bet in a NL cash game? If you have AA you want some callers. If you have 27off you shouldn't make a huge bet. If you have 22(insert venuarble hand) you don't want to raise huge either.

[Nightwish]

[ QUOTE ]

My postflop limit play is borderline awful, it's just really basic without many thought thrown into it. I'm still really new to limit so some plays i just haven't done/thought about at all.

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I'm glad you have been able to adjust.

[Cashcow]

I'm gonna have to disagree,
In a no limit game, I always raise big pre flop. First because it shoves out the garbage that may draw out on you, and second, because if I do get a caller, I want a lot of money in the pot with the best starting hand.
I'm pretty sure anyone with any NL experience will tell you "RAISE WITH AA" in any position.
BTW I suck at limit, but have been doing very well in NL for some time now.

[Cashcow]

Excellent post. Glad you could add some intelligent input to the forum.


NOT

[Sundevils21]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm gonna have to disagree,
In a no limit game, I always raise big pre flop. First because it shoves out the garbage that may draw out on you, and second, because if I do get a caller, I want a lot of money in the pot with the best starting hand.
I'm pretty sure anyone with any NL experience will tell you "RAISE WITH AA" in any position.
BTW I suck at limit, but have been doing very well in NL for some time now.

[/ QUOTE ]

you misunderstood my post. At least I think you did.
If you have AA of course you are going to raise preflop, generally about 3 or 4 bb's because you want some callers(even though you have the best hand right now). You don't want to bet 15 bb's everytime and have everybody fold just to win the blinds. And the problem with raising big with 22 is that if you don't know if you have the best hand. If you're called or raised you are probably in trouble. With 22 you want as many callers as you can get. Almost always limp(even though you may have a better hand than AK preflop).