Overpair out of position. How'd I do?

FeelGoodAboutHood · #1 08-26-2004, 04:05 AM

To set this up the big stack is a solid player, loose with his pre-flop calls and aggressive after that. He's a little pissed at me from five hands back, when I picked up a gut shot and flush draw on the turn, called his bet, rivered the flush and took down a big pot. Let me know what you think about my line here. I'll post results and my thinking later.

PokerRoom No-Limit Hold'em, $1 BB (4 handed)

saw flop|saw showdown

Button ($272)
SB ($91.75)
Hero ($200)
UTG ($66.50)

Preflop: Hero is BB with T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG calls $1, Button calls $1, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: ($5) 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $8, UTG folds, Button calls $8, SB folds.

Turn: ($21) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets $5, Button raises to $25, Hero calls $20.

River: ($71) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $45, Hero calls $45.

Final Pot: $161
Main Pot: $161, between Button and Hero.

FeelGoodAboutHood · #2 08-26-2004, 09:14 AM

Until the river of course.

TerraUbrett · #3 08-26-2004, 09:20 AM

I'm just wondering... why no preflop raise? I agree the position sucks, but a raise might isolate and make TT a better hand.

FeelGoodAboutHood · #4 08-26-2004, 09:31 AM

I thought about it, but against this stack and this player out of position, I thought it was a better move to slow down a bit pre-flop and go from there.

jac394 · #5 08-26-2004, 09:35 AM

(Haven't looked at results yet if they are posted)

I would not really like my 10s here because the button basically got to see the flop for free. There is no way to put him on a hand since he was able to limp. When he called your flop bet, you still did not get much information. If the hand transpired exactly this way, I would probably have folded to the raise on the turn.

I would probably have raised the flop about 4 or 5 times BB (depending on the table normal this session), as TT is a decent starting hand short handed, but really don't want to take it against three random hands. Then if button calls the flop raise, with that flop, I overbet the pot to try and win it right there (may even push depending on how he has reacted in the past against all-in plays with a comparable stack).

TerraUbrett · #6 08-26-2004, 09:42 AM

I'm not sure I understand...
"I thought about it, but against this stack and this player out of position"

So pre-flop you were willing to slow down and not raise, but once in the hand you are willing to call a raise from a player that had you nervous pre-flop? I'm a little confused, but in this situation I probably would raise preflop to cause i want it to be shorthanded and bet pretty big on the flop 5 or 6 times the bb and try to take it there.

FeelGoodAboutHood · #7 08-26-2004, 09:47 AM

It's simple. TT is not a hand I want to get aggressive with until I see that I can. So when the board rags off and then pairs on the turn I feel like he's trying to move me off my hand, and I think my two pair are better than anything he has.

FeelGoodAboutHood · #8 08-26-2004, 09:49 AM

I'd rather make decisions with TT than just blast away. Against this particular opponent at least.

TerraUbrett · #9 08-26-2004, 09:57 AM

I think that letting people see the flop cheap will cost you in this situation. A raise preflop might scare off players holding A3s or 57s that are willing to pay 1bb, but not 5. I'm not saying "blast away", i'm saying be aggressive pre flop to isolate. In this situation, I think you actually decreased your chances of winning by letting everyone see the flop for free. If this had been a table with 7 people calling, with that position I would just call and hope for a set.

Ghazban · #10 08-26-2004, 10:06 AM

I don't understand your line here. First off, I'd definitely raise TT before the flop shorthanded even though you're out of position. Without doing that, you can't feel great about getting action just with an overpair. Next, with $4 in the pot on the flop, you bet $8-- why? If you're trying to push out spade draws, I could understand overbetting the pot but $6 would accomplish that just as easily.

Now with $20 in the pot on the turn and another undercard, you bet $5...... why? This move baffles me completely. On the flop, you were confident enough to bet double the pot but now on the turn, you're dropping in a 1/4-pot sized bet. Were you convinced he had a 3 or something? If I'm the button, I'd read you as hoping to take down the pot on the flop (possibly with 2 overcard spades) with your huge bet and, since you got called, are now making a feeble attempt at picking it up now. I'd definitely reraise you from the button regardless of my cards. If that's what you wanted, bravo, it worked but I see no wisdom in making such a small bet on the turn.

Now on the river, you're checking to the guy who could've raised you with any junk and letting him control the round. If you want him to bet here, great, because he probably will (and did) but you still don't necessarily know what you're up against. I doubt the queen helped or hurt him as I expect you were way behind (to a straight or boat) or way ahead (of TPTK) prior to that. Now that I think about it, you're probably way behind because, if he just has a pair and has put you on 2 big spades, that queen ought to stop him from betting for value on the river.