On Tilt or OK?

[magates]

Been lurking for a little bit, this is my first post. I'm a beginner struggling to improve my game, and very glad I found this forum.

I hadn't been at this table very long so didn't have a read on anyone. I had had several frustrating sessions strung together, I was trying not to let it affect my play but I'm not too sure about the 3-bet on the turn, too aggressive?


Pacific Poker $0.10/$0.20

Preflop: Hero is Button with KcTc
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, CO calls, Hero calls, SB raises, BB calls, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, CO calls, Hero calls

Flop: (16sb) 2hJc9c
SB bets, BB calls, UTG folds, UTG +1 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, CO folds, Hero raises, SB calls, BB calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 folds

Turn: (13.5bb) 2d
SB checks, BB checks, UTG+1 checks, MP1 checks, Hero bets, SB raises, BB calls, UTG+1 folds, MP1 folds, Hero 3-bets, SB folds, BB calls

River: (21bb) Qd
BB bets, Hero raises, BB calls

[ncboiler]

A tad aggressive.

[JohnShaft]

Hi Magates, welcome to 2+2.

OK, let me break this one down for you.

5 limpers to you with KTs. The call is mandatory. Some might even say raise.

Flop the Raise is great. You're getting 5 callers for your hand and you have 12 outs to the near nuts. You'll have the best hand by the river here about 40%, so with only two callers this should be a +EV raise.

Turn, you have 4 opponents. You aren't going to take the pot down with a bet. It just ain't happening. So betting is only right if you can get value, more or less. At this point you'd need AT LEAST 3 callers for value (maybe 3.x, i.e over 3). So the bet is a little slim imo. You would have been better off taking the free card. Not by a lot, but by some.
Now, the SB checkraises you, and only one of the remaining three call. You are getting 2-1 on your money and 3-bet. But you only have a flush draw and gutshot straight. Your hand currently will not win the pot. EVER.
So you're getting 2-1 on the value raise, and figure to be about 3-1 to win the hand. The raise is just wrong.
It's not winning you the hand, you won't win the hand without improving, and your chances of improving are less than the money that you are getting on the raise (i.e it is NOT a value raise).
(Not to mention there is some chance you could already be drawing to a one-out straight flush against a boat.)

The River raise is fine. But the Bet on the Turn is questionable, the 3-bet is more than questionable. It is a losing bet.

So was the 3-bet tilt? Well it certainly wasn't a value raise, only you can answer if it was tilt.
It isn't THAT bad though because you had a real strong draw with a lot of probable outs. But it is still noticeably -EV.

[Greg J]

I love the flop play here. This was such a great play for two reasons:

1) (And most importantly) Value bet.
2) (The really cool side effect) You get a free card the next round...

Only you didnt take your free card!! Yeah, this might be tilt.

I like your play every other street. The only questionable play is limping with KTs, but in this position with this many callers, playing it is fine. After the raise the call is routine.

Welcome to the boards!

I was snooping around pacific and have been waiting for them to give me free money... I hear they do that... and say some of the juiciest tables ever. Like 80% flops seen, 10-12BB pots... I just wish you could multitable there!

[magates]

Wow, great response JohnShaft, thank you very much. I'm still having problems breaking a hand down like you did for me, so that helped a lot.

[JohnShaft]

You are absolutely welcome. [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

[magates]

Thanks Greg J. Yeah, I'm not sure why I felt the need to bet the turn here rather than take the free card, my flop raise might have looked good if I had. Now that my errors have been pointed out to me they seem so obvious, I knew it was a bad move after I did it (the phrase "F it" escaping my lips as I hit the bet button should have been indication enough), but for some reason I couldn't see why. Oh well, I have a lot to learn, thanks again.

[Greg J]

[ QUOTE ]
Yeah, I'm not sure why I felt the need to bet the turn here rather than take the free card, my flop raise might have looked good if I had.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think your flop raise still looks good.
[ QUOTE ]
Oh well, I have a lot to learn, thanks again.

[/ QUOTE ]
So do we all. Keep it up.