I hate 20/2s

[ddubois]

People never fold! I constantly bust out pushing my Ax and get called by Kx and they suck out. But when the reverse occurs, I of course lose. How can this guy make this call? His whole tournament on the line, on the bubble, with A9s. I haven't played back at a single blind steal the entire tournament, and I've shown nothing but great cards at every showdown.

***** Hand History for Game 874911370 *****
Table Table 13838 (Real Money)
Seat 7 is the button
Total number of players : 4
Seat 1: P0K3RM4N ( $3550 )
Seat 7: swoollinator ( $1365 )
Seat 4: riveler ( $815 )
Seat 10: jcchou ( $2270 )
Trny:5419808 Level:3
Blinds(25/50)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to P0K3RM4N [ Qd Kd ]
riveler folds.
swoollinator raises [175].
jcchou folds.
P0K3RM4N raises [1150].
swoollinator is all-In.
jcchou: damn!
P0K3RM4N calls [165].
** Dealing Flop ** [ 8d, 7s, Ac ]
jcchou: here we go
** Dealing Turn ** [ 3c ]
** Dealing River ** [ 8s ]
jcchou: ouch
P0K3RM4N shows [ Qd, Kd ] a pair of eights.
swoollinator shows [ 9h, Ah ] two pairs, aces and eights.
swoollinator wins 2755 chips from the main pot with two pairs, aces and eights.
nh

I ended up busting out in 4th when I pushed a small pocket pair into the BB's AA. I sit here in disbelief, that I managed to miss ITM with that massive stack. !@#$ [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

[greytedeals]

looks like u made the poor play that hand. 4 handed, A9s has more strength as well.

[UncleRemus]

I really don't think it's a poor play at all. . . Button is in steal position, and has the small stack at the table covered by quite a bit. Dub says this is the first time of him coming over the top of someone like this, and he more than has the villain covered. There is such a variety of hands button could make this raise with, and he should be laying most of them down in this spot (including A9.) It was a bummer to get called in this spot, but I like the play and would make it routinely.

[bones]

Well, has he been getting played with? Has he been on the bubble for awhile? Is he tired? Has he been folding a lot (A9s is the best he's seen in awhile) and got caught up?

Your tight table image only matters to someone who doesn't mind laying down to a re-raise. My guess is that he got a decent bubble hand and decided to go with it, no matter what happened after he made the initial bet. It might be dumb, but we've all been there where we're getting frustrated, we get a decent hand, get popped back...but that call button is so tempting. Call it tilt, whatever...but we've all done it.

Or he could just be a bad player. Very real possibility there.

Sorry 'bout the bubble though.

[ddubois]

We hadn't been on the bubble long, as you can see it was only level 3. The deck had run me over and there were lots of fish calling going all-in with TPNK.

Villan had stolen a some blinds, not a huge amount, but more than the others at the table. I had not been stealing any blinds yet.

Should I have re-raised some other amount? Like to 400, as if I have a hand that wants called? Or does that just encourage him to come back over the top?

Should I just call, and turbo-muck any flop with an ace?

Or should I just give up every blind until someone busts?

I rountinely have problems with overplaying KQs. You would think I would learn.

[bones]

[ QUOTE ]
there were lots of fish calling going all-in with TPNK.

[/ QUOTE ]

In your first post, you started off by saying that 20+2ers never fold. It seems like this is what got you a big chip lead. It's par for the course in low buy-in sngs. You'll get sucked out on occassionally.

As for the hand, I'll leave that for someone who plays better than me. I probably would just call, as I think a small re-raise prices him to call with just about any mediocre hand and lets him go over you with just about anything. If he re-raises, are you gonna call? If you are, I think pushing in the first place would be a better play and just be ready for the consequences. If you'll fold to a re-raise, I'd probably just see a flop.

[mscott2374]

[ QUOTE ]
People never fold! I constantly bust out pushing my Ax and get called by Kx and they suck out. But when the reverse occurs, I of course lose. How can this guy make this call? His whole tournament on the line, on the bubble, with A9s. I haven't played back at a single blind steal the entire tournament, and I've shown nothing but great cards at every showdown.


[/ QUOTE ]

I tend to have the same problem. I think one of the issues at this level is that although you are playing tight, only showing down good hands and not stealing early on etc... even though you feel that this should be enough for you to gain the respect of the remaining players at the table, the truth is that most of them probably haven't even noticed how you are playing. ALL they are interested in is their own cards.

As for this specific hand. Why did you feel that you had to put in such a large raise at this stage of the tourney?
Did you think that you had to put in such a bet to find out how good your hand was?

I agree with you that this guy made a terrible call, but I can't say that I like they way that you put so many chips at risk on a nothing hand so early in the tourney.

Please accept my apologies if I have rambled on a bit.
I hope this helps & makes sense.

All IMHO of course

[jac394]

[ QUOTE ]
I tend to have the same problem. I think one of the issues at this level is that although you are playing tight, only showing down good hands and not stealing early on etc... even though you feel that this should be enough for you to gain the respect of the remaining players at the table, the truth is that most of them probably haven't even noticed how you are playing. ALL they are interested in is their own cards.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think this is one of the most important statements you can make about the low limit tourneys at Party. While I've only dabbled in the 50 and 100 tourneys there, in my 10,20 and 30 tourney experience this is normally the case, sometimes even when you get into a heads up match-up.

[BigJer]

Sorry man, with respect I don't see the problem. The other guy had A9suited and thought the big stack was trying to bully him into folding after his 175 raise. He took a chance and it worked out.

I'm surprised he didn't hit you with some "that's poker!" nonsense in the chat window. Boy, that makes me mad [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]

[ddubois]

thought the big stack was trying to bully him into folding after his 175 raise

There seems to be alot of defense of the villian play in this hand, so I want to go on record with my rationale for why this is a bad play.

What range of hands will re-raise all-in on the bubble? A shorter stack might only do top 10%, to which he is a 1:1.8 dog. It's true, I can be a bit looser with the big stack, but does anything think a non-maniac would do this with any ace crap? Personally Top 15% is a wider range than my minimum, of which KQs is a member. I think that's a reasonable approximation of an average player. He's a 1:1.3 dog to that range of hands, and moreover, not to harp on the oft-touted fold equity, he's calling all-in, not pushing.

Even if he thinks I'll be as crazy as top 25% (roughly any ace, any pair, any suited broadway), he's still only a coin flip. Now, I see this all the time. All these bad players are so thrilled at the chance to call all-in and flip a coin to double up - hell, maybe coin-flipping is +EV for bad players. But the truth is, if I have to flip coins often enough, I know I am going to bust, so I don't want to do it. So many people call me holding 55 when I push with AK, and then justify it by saying "What, my hand is a favorite" - sure, if you can see my cards and know I never have a pair. It's an awful play, but half the time they win, and there's nothing I can do to punish this bad play - other than push when I have bigger pairs, and hope some loosey is holding 55 that orbit.