More On Bonds

[andyfox]

Barry, that is. Here is one of the stangest statistical lines I've ever seen:
AB: 286
Runs: 100
Hits: 106

Has anybody ever scored 100 runs on just 286 at bats? He's scoring a run every 2.86 official at bats. The only one ever close that I could find was Babe Ruth in 1921, at one every 3.05.

[Taxman]

Steroids or no, Bonds is one of the most amazing ball players ever to play the game. Every Giants game I watch is practically in anticipation of his next at bat.

[Boris]

Yes that is amazing. Everyone rips the Giant's because they don't have anyone to hit behind Bonds. But, I heard on sports talk radio yesterday that the Giants have scored more runs than the Cardinals. Kind of shows the importance of getting on base. Also notice the Bonds is getting pitches now. Teams realize the putting him on is not a good option.

[andyfox]

On Base % plus Slugging %, normalized to the league and park adjusted (from Baseball Reference.com)

Lifetime totals:

1) Babe Ruth 207
2) Ted Williams 190
3) Barry Bonds 179 (thru 2003)
3) Lou Gehrig 179
5) Rogers Hornsby 175
6) Mickey Mantle 172
7) Joe Jackson 170

This seems to me to locate Bonds, historically, about where he belongs as a hitter: below Ruth and Williams, but even with Gehrig and ahead of Hornsby and Mantle.

[Oski]

[ QUOTE ]
Yes that is amazing. Everyone rips the Giant's because they don't have anyone to hit behind Bonds. But, I heard on sports talk radio yesterday that the Giants have scored more runs than the Cardinals. Kind of shows the importance of getting on base. Also notice the Bonds is getting pitches now. Teams realize the putting him on is not a good option.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think it was a huge mistake not signing Vlad Guerrero. The Giants should have done everything they could to get this guy batting behind Bonds.

That would have made for the best show in "The Show."

[bugstud]

that would have been hell to pitch through. Even 6 AAAA guys with those two is a competent lineup

[nolanfan34]

I think a lot of people would be surprised to see Joe Jackson that high. I know I was.

Bonds is amazing, and I hope the guy is clean. I'm not convinced steriods make you a better hitter per se, but to have that cloud hanging over his accomplishments is not good.

[B-Man]

I agree--IF you ignore the steroid factor.

However, if you look at Bonds' career statistics through 1999 or 2000 (i.e. pre-steroids (pre-suspected steroids for the doubters)), then project what he would have done 2000-2004 if he had continued his excellence typical of his 1992-1999 seasons (as opposed to the ridiculous numbers he actually put up), then I think you have to move him down at least several notches--still an all-time great and easily a first-ballot HOFer, but if it wasn't for steroids, he would not have put up OPS+ of 262, 275 and 231 the last 3 years (not to mention whatever it is this year).

[Taxman]

I still don't think this evidence flies. Even if Bonds used steroids, his accomplishments given so few at bats are things that I doubt steroids could influence. McGwire (now there's an example of someone who drastically increased his physical stature since his early years) and Sosa very likely could have doped as well, but they still struck out a lot and had hot/cold streaks like everyone else. Bonds incredible focus and ability to constantly be "hot" have nothing to do with steroids. The pure power numbers might be steroid influenced, but the on base percentage is not. Steroids do not increase your focus and consistency.

[B-Man]

[ QUOTE ]
Even if Bonds used steroids, his accomplishments given so few at bats are things that I doubt steroids could influence.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
The pure power numbers might be steroid influenced, but the on base percentage is not.

[/ QUOTE ]

That is incredibly short-sighted.

The three primary factors which influence whether a batter walks are the pitcher, the batter and the unpire. Assuming the umpires, on average, are equal for everyone, then walks are mainly determined by batter and pitcher.

No question Bonds is selective at the plate, which is part of the reason he walks so much.

The other reason he walks so much is that most pitchers are terrified to give him anything to pitch. Why do you think that is? It's because he is such a devastating hitter when they do give him something to hit. You don't see singles hitters walking 200 times, do you? What makes Bonds so devasting is his power--in the 1990s, when he was merely the best player in baseball (but not a modern-day Babe Ruth), you didn't see him shattering the walk or slugging percentage records, did you? But once he became enormous and started hitting with ridiculous power, he started walked more. Hmmm, see a correlation? Do you really think steroids could not influence a players on-base percentage?