Hand comments please

[Joe Rees]

I am JoeDogInKC. Sorry I didn't use the converter, but it doesn't work with this site.

Hand Number: 115,479,734
Table Number: 1,209,235
Event Name: Super Satellite August High Rollers (#859278)MNHS
Event Started: Monday August 23rd 8:30:19 PM CDT 2004
Event Type: PokerSchool Online Tournament
Event Buy-In: PSO$ 200 (PSO$ 24,800 total prize pool)
Game: No Limit Hold 'em
Level II: 50/100 Blinds (25 Minimum Chip)
Average Stack: 2,883.72 (2,000 starting chips)
Remaining Players: 86 (124 started)
Seat 1 : alanleach starts with 2,550
Seat 2 : JoeDogInKC starts with 1,875
Seat 3 : CardMD starts with 2,375
Seat 4 : frazier starts with 1,650
Seat 5 : BigFlush starts with 5,925
Seat 6 : Wolfman starts with 2,175
Seat 7 : kolslaw starts with 3,975
Seat 8 : KF2190 starts with 1,150
Seat 9 : magster starts with 3,350
Seat 10 : Razorzz starts with 1,725
Seat 7 : kolslaw has the dealer button
>>>DEALING HOLE CARDS<<<
JoeDogInKC dealt down Jc Jh
KF2190 posts the small blind 50
magster posts the big blind 100
Razorzz folds
alanleach folds
JoeDogInKC raises 250 to 350
CardMD folds
frazier folds
BigFlush folds
Wolfman folds
kolslaw folds
KF2190 calls 300
magster folds
>>>DEALING FLOP<<< [ 8d Th 6d ]
KF2190 checks
JoeDogInKC bets 800
KF2190 calls 800 and is all-in
JoeDogInKC cards were Jc Jh
KF2190 cards were 7d Kd
>>>DEALING TURN<<< [ 5s ]
>>>DEALING RIVER<<< [ 4c ]
KF2190 wins 2,400 with an eight high straight
JoeDogInKC: lol
>>>SUMMARY<<<
Hand Ended: Monday August 23rd 9:00:06 PM CDT 2004
Total Pot: 2,400
Board: [ 8d Th 6d 5s 4c ]
Seat 1 : alanleach did not bet, folded pre-flop
Seat 2 : JoeDogInKC lost 1,150, showed hand [ Jc Jh ]
Seat 3 : CardMD did not bet, folded pre-flop
Seat 4 : frazier did not bet, folded pre-flop
Seat 5 : BigFlush did not bet, folded pre-flop
Seat 6 : Wolfman did not bet, folded pre-flop
Seat 7 : kolslaw (button) did not bet, folded pre-flop
Seat 8 : KF2190 (small blind) bet 1,150, won 2,400, net +1,250, showed
hand [ 7d Kd ]
Seat 9 : magster (big blind) lost 100, folded pre-flop
Seat 10 : Razorzz did not bet, folded pre-flop

[Sidekick]

Personally your play looks fine to me. You've got an overpair and the board has the two diamonds. Your bet was large enough so that any diamond draws are not going to be getting anywhere close (at least if I figured it correctly) to correct odds to make this call. You made a pot sized bet of 800, which only gives him 2 to 1 odds on his hand which he has to figure is a 4 to 1 dog at this point.

You also don't want to give your opponent the chance to hit any overcards cheaply, which you did.

Your play seems fine to me, KF2190 appears to have made a bad play and gotten lucky. Not much you can do when it happens.

[ethan]

You played the hand fine. The pot-size raise preflop is good. You clearly have to bet the flop, any reasonable bet pot-commits you, so you push. For what it's worth, you were a slight underdog (46.2% to win) on the flop. Your opponent just got a lucky flop here after a loose preflop call. Most of the time this is exactly what you want the flop to look like. (You should also have a plan for what to do if the flop has an Ace, or if your opponent open-pushes, or something else goes wrong.)

Do you have any specific questions on your play?

[Joe Rees]

Firstly, I want to say thanks for the kind replies. I posted this (mistakenly) in the NL forum and was told to post it here. I did so because I wanted some opinions on how I played the hand and got some rude responses in return about how there wasn't anything challenging about the hand and no-one cares about my bad beat story. So, thanks to those of you who took the time to read my post and take the time to respond.

I felt pretty confident I had the best hand pre-flop and knocked quite a few people out with my pre-flop raise which I thought was appropriate. At PSO there is a "Raise Pot" button that essentially calls and then raises the amount then in the pot. I've read that anywhere between 3 and 5 times the Big Blind is a good amount to raise with a big pp or big A to knock out opponents and this made it 3.5 which I felt showed pretty good strength. Obviously the villian made a weak call pre-flop.

After seeing his hand, I don't think he could have folded easily post-flop as he had good amount of outs and a big pot to shoot for. However, I felt that putting him all-in (which was also the size of the pot, coincidently) would force him to make a decision and even if he had a decent draw might lay it down and look for a better spot to get his chips in and double-up.

I am curious, since you mentioned it, what would be the proper plays if overcards were to fall. I realize it would be bet amount dependant, but could I/should I get away from this? Do I go for showdown and see if I was ahead the whole time? In limit game, I check-call to and including the river. Here, I'm not so sure anymore. I've been playing so much limit that my NL game is definitely suffering.

Thanks again for the time, responses, and assistance.

[ethan]

I actually saw your original post in the NL forum. A couple of the replies were rude, yes, but you should also note that the posters there saw this hand as very straightforward. All the decisions in this hand are ones that you want to be very straightforward for _you_, and they will be with a little more tournament experience. (That forum's also had an excess of bad-beat stories as of late, although yours wasn't one.) This is definitely the right forum for your post, and if you have questions regarding NL cash games you'll probably want to start with the low-stakes NL forum. The one where you posted is for strategy in higher-stakes cash NL games...usually 5/5 blinds or higher. I'd recommend reading the forum, there's a lot to be learned there, but those games play much differently than the $25NL at party.

3x the BB is a good raise size, 5x is a little high. You should also increase the size of your raise if people have already limped in ahead of you...the 3x suggestion comes from a pot-sized raise, so with 2 limpers you'd probably go closer to 5x. On this flop there's no way you're going to get him to fold. A tighter opponent, maybe, but not one who'll call a quarter of his stack preflop with K7s.

So, with regard to what happens if the flop play gets tricky. JJ's a difficult hand to play postflop, there's been a _lot_ of discussion of it in this forum. I'd suggest searching through previous threads and seeing what you can find.

You're very unlikely to get to a showdown without going all-in. If you show weakness after your preflop raise, your opponent's going to put a bet in somewhere. If an overcard comes and your opponent pushes in, you're going to have to decide whether he's just trying to move you off your hand or whether you're actually beat. With 2, things look worse. (Also, an ace should scare you more than a K, which should scare you more than a Q.) If he checks to you and overcards have flopped, remember that they look scary to him, too. You raised, he doesn't know you don't have an ace.

I could keep rambling on this for awhile...the short version is "it depends" [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] If he has you beat on the flop, so be it, but I'd err on the aggressive side if unsure what to do. And read the archives, this is a popular topic.

good luck.