Bad Ettiquette?

warlockjd · #1 08-23-2004, 08:51 AM

I bet a hand the whole way through. I check the river. Player B bets, I call, he shows, I attempt to muck. Player C demands to see my cards and I show.

When this happens, I often ask Player C who it was that he thought I have been colluding with. (He is implying that I am cheating my demanding to see my cards.) Is this bad poker ettiquette on my part?

If so, I shall cease to do it.

Thanks!

mostsmooth · #2 08-23-2004, 09:01 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I bet a hand the whole way through. I check the river. Player B bets, I call, he shows, I attempt to muck. Player C demands to see my cards and I show.

When this happens, I often ask Player C who it was that he thought I have been colluding with. (He is implying that I am cheating my demanding to see my cards.) Is this bad poker ettiquette on my part?

If so, I shall cease to do it.

Thanks!

[/ QUOTE ]
not bad on your part for asking a question
i would show him and then ask to see his cards every hand he plays
or i would fire them face down into the muck to piss him off

warlockjd · #3 08-23-2004, 09:05 AM

Mucking them when he demands to see is breaking a rule IMO (ala Brett Jungblut/Annie Duke argument), so I won't do that.

I also think demanding to see his cards is abusing the rule so I don't do that either. Doesn't leave me with a lot of options, lol [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

AKQJ10 · #4 08-23-2004, 11:25 AM

Not sure about bad etiquette, but it does strike me as a bit paranoid if you're assuming he's accusing you of collusion. Forgive me if i missed a detail, but he didn't actually accuse you verbally of colluding right? You're just assuming that he thinks you're colluding, and that's an unfounded assumption.

I like to know what my opponents are showing down because it helps me understand them. The other day i kept asking a woman who was showing her cards to certain opponents to tell me what she had, but i've not gotten as far as asking the dealer to shown me a shown down hand out of the muck. It's one's right to do so, though, and i wouldn't consider it an accusation of collusion.

bwana devil · #5 08-23-2004, 11:32 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Not sure about bad etiquette, but it does strike me as a bit paranoid if you're assuming he's accusing you of collusion. Forgive me if i missed a detail, but he didn't actually accuse you verbally of colluding right? You're just assuming that he thinks you're colluding, and that's an unfounded assumption.

[/ QUOTE ]

I believe he is assuming the guy is not accusing him of colluding, but rather trying to gain information. By asking this question and putting him on the defensive is his smart-aleck way of telling the guy he doesnt appreciate the rule abuse.

I see nothing wrong in handling the situation like this and may use this in the future.

bwana

pudley4 · #6 08-23-2004, 11:32 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Not sure about bad etiquette, but it does strike me as a bit paranoid if you're assuming he's accusing you of collusion. Forgive me if i missed a detail, but he didn't actually accuse you verbally of colluding right? You're just assuming that he thinks you're colluding, and that's an unfounded assumption.

I like to know what my opponents are showing down because it helps me understand them. The other day i kept asking a woman who was showing her cards to certain opponents to tell me what she had, but i've not gotten as far as asking the dealer to shown me a shown down hand out of the muck. It's one's right to do so, though, and i wouldn't consider it an accusation of collusion.

[/ QUOTE ]

The reason for the rule is to prevent collusion, not to gather information. It doesn't work well, and it's been abused and twisted into what it currently is used as - a tool to gather information.

joyride · #7 08-23-2004, 11:40 AM

Bad ettiquette? No way. I think you went about it right with shooting it back at him the way you did. He's not asking because he thinks you're cheating, he's asking because he wants to know how you play a hand with what you hold, and abusing the rule that's in place.

CountDuckula · #8 08-23-2004, 12:01 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Not sure about bad etiquette, but it does strike me as a bit paranoid if you're assuming he's accusing you of collusion. Forgive me if i missed a detail, but he didn't actually accuse you verbally of colluding right? You're just assuming that he thinks you're colluding, and that's an unfounded assumption.

I like to know what my opponents are showing down because it helps me understand them. The other day i kept asking a woman who was showing her cards to certain opponents to tell me what she had, but i've not gotten as far as asking the dealer to shown me a shown down hand out of the muck. It's one's right to do so, though, and i wouldn't consider it an accusation of collusion.

[/ QUOTE ]

Way too many people think that it's a legitimate use of that rule to get information about an opponent. That is simply wrong. The only purpose of that rule is to prevent collusion, so if players demand to see non-winning cards, they are accusing the player of collusion, whether they know it or not. Using that rule for the sole purpose of gathering information about your opponents is cheating.

On the other hand, if someone is showing their hands to other opponents, that is a legitimate reason to demand to see them, because that could be construed as collusive in itself. I believe it is explicitly against the rules to give away information to some opponents but not all.

-Mike

TheTurk · #9 08-23-2004, 12:07 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Mucking them when he demands to see is breaking a rule IMO (ala Brett Jungblut/Annie Duke argument), so I won't do that.

I also think demanding to see his cards is abusing the rule so I don't do that either. Doesn't leave me with a lot of options, lol [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Breaking a rule? He called the other guys bet. Why does he have to show his cards if he knows he's beat? If it was a rule, then everyone would always have to show their cards at the end no matter what. How often do you see that?

AKQJ10 · #10 08-23-2004, 12:11 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Way too many people think that it's a legitimate use of that rule to get information about an opponent.

[/ QUOTE ]

I stand corrected. Thanks for all the comments setting me straight. I've only been playing poker a short while, so the only way i even knew such a rule existed was from seeing it talked about here, and i clearly misinterpreted its purpose.