SSH Question about outs. Simple question for most

xburbx · #1 08-23-2004, 01:04 AM

AsJh

flop - 4sKh7s
What are my outs? Does it have to be the best possible hand I can make, or just any hand i can make?

TheSheath · #2 08-23-2004, 01:27 AM

u could have running aces which would give u three aces but against ace king or ace queen it wouldn't give u the best hand. running spades would give u the nut flush which is the best hand and then a 10 and queen on the turn and river would give u the ace high straight. so that is like i think 24 outs.

4 - 10s
4-queens
3-aces
3-jacks
10 - spades

i think thats all of them. now keep in mind someone could and probably does have some of those outs and the back door spade draw is i think a 23-1 dog so i wouldn't count that strongly so that is a partial out so realy u have like 8-15 outs i would guess. but outs are just cards that could help you. full outs make u the best hand or like the sraight in that case too and partial outs are like the aces and jacks that give u a pair. if u have ssh re-read that section if not buy the book. great book.

xburbx · #3 08-23-2004, 01:39 AM

i have the book, actually just purchased it today and started reading it. 15 outs for that hand above would seem to be extremely profitable. it seems too high? Ive been reading the book and still cant figure when to count the odds on the outs (turn, river, flop). Pot, implied equity.

TheSheath · #4 08-23-2004, 01:57 AM

yea i am into the post flop evaluating draws. yea now that i think about it 15 is pretty high its just all of those spades but those are very small chances so probably 6-8 or less outs i would say around there. i was also confused on the odds and stuff and outs still am a little hazy on so i went to the probability forum and posted there. they helped. its hard to do the math on the spot at the table and all so really u gotta figure it out so u dont take 15 minutes to call fold or raise. what i did was highlight the very important stuff so when i re read it i will just read the highlighted stuff and skip the words that aren't important. althouth i found myself highlighting a whole page a couple times. lol. but yea just read and re read it.

RiverTheNuts · #5 08-23-2004, 02:24 AM

runner runner flush and straight draws are only worth about 1 out a piece post flop according to the book I think... so in this situation you have ~5.5 outs at best...
Runner spades - 1 out
Runner straight - 1 out
ace - 3 outs (this still may not get you the best hand)
any combo of ace/ace/jack/jack on the river - .5 outs at best

Anyway, thats what I got from reading SSH

helpmeout · #6 08-23-2004, 06:36 AM

3 outs

I'm not calling a turn bet with anything but a pair of Aces

Kaz The Original · #7 08-23-2004, 07:03 AM

Is a pair of aces good? Then you have an easy 3 outs right there.

Backdoor draws (ie. runner runner draws) never count for much. Maybe 2 outs for the straight, and 2 for the flush. There are 8 flush cards, but you have to hit two of them. The chance on the flop of hitting a flush is 1 in 4. The chance of hitting a flush card on the turn and river is 1 in 4 OF 1 in 4 (1 in 16). Same with the straight.

Capice?

Rudbaeck · #8 08-23-2004, 08:16 AM

4 outs or so. The three aces are far from certain to make you the best hand, so discount them to a total of 1.5

1.5 for the runner flush draw, and 1 for the runner gutshot straight draw.

It's not too shabby to call even if you are laid somewhat worse than 4:1, as you get the implied odds anyway, and you can dump your hand on the turn if both straight and flush draws miss.

QuickLearner · #9 08-23-2004, 11:25 AM

I think you should count the outs on the flop, then recount them after you see the turn. If you miss your runner on the turn its a whole new ballgame.

sucka · #10 08-23-2004, 01:35 PM

You have 3 good outs on the flop - the Ah, Ac, Ad.

A Jack coming will likely not help you as you won't be able to beat the top pair showing on the board.

If there's a lot of callers and you peel one off for a single bet, it's possible to pick up a spade redraw on the turn. Depending on the size of the pot, and the action it will usually be correct to see the river here.

If you pick up the spade redraw on the turn, then you not only have to think about outs but how many opponents you have. If you are heads up, spades are good and an Ace will likely be good as well. However, if this hand is playing mutli-way then you'll likely need a spade to win the pot, giving you 9 outs on the turn.