unusual (and maybe bad) line i took against TheGiftOfGab

[AJo Go All In]

so far none of the responses have even come close to reproducing my reasoning, or for that matter providing reasoning supporting an alternate play. comments such as "i would bet the flop" and "i would call the turn" are not really helpful, because i know most of you would bet the flop, or given checking, would call the turn. that's why i posted this hand.

i suspect my play may not have been the best option (and obviously this is not my default play) but i would like to hear some reasons as to why or why not. you guys can do better.

i'll post some thoughts of mine re: this hand later.

[turnipmonster]

okayfine. I'll take a shot at your reasoning on this one, tell me if I'm off base.

preflop, whatevah.

in order for you to check the flop, I think you're not sure you have the best hand, but can represent a flush draw and possibly drive GoG off a better ace or at least catch a scare card to slow him down if you are beat.

other possible reason for checking the flop is a bet has dubious value against someone like GoG. he is certainly not going to call off his stack with anything you can beat, so if you bet and get called you need to push him off his hand which may be difficult. basically you check because you think he will bet worse hands on the turn than he will call with on the flop.

the turn, ok, we knew he was going to fire and here's barrel 1. just calling may put us in a sticky spot on the river becuase GoG will obviously bluff some of the time and value bet you sometimes and since you have top pair and everything you may be inspired to play bad and call. a huge raise looks like a resteal and a minraise looks like you want to play ball.

how am I doing so far?

I have to go drinking now so keeping this short. basically I don't like the raise because if he calls you lose, so the raise is essentially a stone bluff. how much I like it depends on what you put him on, but I like letting him fire barrel two on the river.

--turnipmonster

[Michael Davis]

Were you planning on calling a big reraise with this hand? I suspect you were.

-Michael

[cornell2005]

the reasons turnip and i mentioned for calling the turn, assuming you are calling the river, seem pretty obvious and important. if those are "wrong" im not sure what your getting at..

(another problem i have with the raise is that if he has a high club, your put in a tough spot. id rather call the turn and call the river almost irregardless of the bet amount than make my river decision much more difficult)

[Unvme]

I cant figure out what the big deal about this hand is. The raise preflop is for whatever reason, maybe he likes AJ, maybe he was raising his position, who knows. The flop check is because he is either crushing or getting crushed, so in the small chance that GoG has a pocket pair then he only has 2 outs, and if he has A/rag then he has 3 outs, so why bet? By checking the flop, GoG probably doesnt put him on an Ace, so he bets out trying to win the pot right there. This guy raised the min to see where he was. Gog isnt going to call with a loser here, so this is all the money that is going to get into the pot, there will be no river bets unless its a Jack on the river.. So, by checking the flop he got 150 out of GoG. Lets say GoG does call on the turn, then this guy has Jacks for outs and flush cards for possible outs. So this bet on the turn really isnt that big of deal.

This guy isnt calling anything on the river because GoG isnt betting anything this guy is beating, and if GoG raised the turn then this guy is folding.

Its just like every other hand that is played on every card room/online site/etc in the world. Whats the big deal

[cornell2005]

[ QUOTE ]
This guy raised the min to see where he was.

[/ QUOTE ]

i highly doubt he raised the turn to see where he was. id agree with the rest, however.

[AJo Go All In]

[ QUOTE ]
Were you planning on calling a big reraise with this hand? I suspect you were.


[/ QUOTE ]

really? wow, you suspect wrong.

[AJo Go All In]

well, this is close, yeah. i have to go out in a second but here's a quick rundown of what i was thinking.

ok, when he bets the turn in that spot there are a few things he could have: 1) nothing 2) a made flush 3) a full house 4) a worse (with an outside shot at a better) ace

i think with the way i played it i am generally a representing a very strong hand, with an outside chance at a bluff/marginal hand. the point is, to him it would seem like a made flush is the same as an ace at this point. because i either have aces full or nothing (exaggeration, but something like that). he knows that i am not paying him off with worse than a flush if he reraises me. i also think that it's unlikely he'll try to run me off with a worse hand as i very well could have a monster. so i don't think there is much problem with opening myself up to a reraise on the turn, because if he comes over the top i am likely drawing dead or slim anyways. so i am seeing him just calling me with a flush on the turn and checking to me on the river, intending to call me (at which point i obviously check behind). whereas, if i flat call the turn, he can (rightly) put me on ace-face and value bet me big on the river (and after underrepresenting my hand i will be inclined to call -- because he is certainly capable of firing a big bluff out there). maybe i'm wrong about this though. maybe if i flat call the turn he is more likely to put me on a monster, but i don't think so.

of course, a drawback is (assuming that if i call the turn i intend to call the river no matter what) that i am missing value from when he decides to bluff at me. i think calling may be better for this reason, although i'm not really sure, and i may play around with some numbers later.

by the way, it's also possible that he will just get curious and call me on the turn with a worse ace.

there's probably more, i'll post later.

[coltrane]

[ QUOTE ]
so far none of the responses have even come close to reproducing my reasoning

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah, you're right....I don't know what your reasoning was, and I'm not quite sure what you expected people to respond to when you posted the hand.....you give nothing about the relevant players/table information, and really nothing about the hand except the play-by-play.....okay, fine, maybe checking the flop gives the impression of top set....but I for one don't know anything about GoG or his impression of you (you don't provide any info) - not to mention the fact that there is a third person in the hand with you.....even if you had 3 aces on the flop, checking is a mistake.....I realize that waiting til the turn and then min. raising won you the pot....but, if the third player had come over the top then this hand just turns into a big pre-flop raise and subsequent misplay of a mediocre hand resulting in a (IMHO) needless bleeding of money.....I guess I just don't understand the point you're trying to make.....if it's that you are "representing" something by your actions, then you could've played this hand with any two cards......

[scrub]

[ QUOTE ]
but I for one don't know anything about GoG or his impression of you (you don't provide
any info) - not to mention the fact that there is a third person in the hand with you.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you're going to read the posts on this forum and respond to them, you really ought to search through the archives. GoG is one of the most respected posters on this forum, and a very solid online big bet player. Search for his name and "stack sizes". Thank me later.

scrub