Did I charge too much?

Garland · #1 08-19-2004, 04:25 AM

Location: Ultimate Bet
Stakes: $0.50/$1 blinds $100 Max
Players: Afraid now. There's one maniac (in BB on this particular hand) at the table raising all-in what seems to be every 2nd or 3rd hand, often times with crap. I was able to expose him with 88 later on, but that explains why I didn't raise preflop with my AA. He didn't fall in my trap darn it! I promised myself I wouldn't go broke in this unraised pot.

I figured the person betting into me with a board of 33Q was betting the Q and was probably drawing slim to the other two Qs, and I simply called the modest flop and turn bets. When the river produced an A giving me a boat, he checked to me, and the pot was $27.

Now it isn't my style to underbet the pot ever, so I put in $20. How much would you have charged this person to see my cards on the river?

Results forthcoming.

Garland

Ultimate Bet No-Limit Hold'em, $1 BB (9 handed) converter

saw flop|saw showdown

Garland ($94)
MP3 ($56)
CO ($80.75)
Button ($34.25)
SB ($42.25)
BB ($60.75)
UTG ($102)
UTG+1 ($90)
MP1 ($53)

Preflop: Garland is MP2 with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG calls $1, UTG+1 folds, MP1 calls $1, Garland calls $1, MP3 calls $1, CO calls $1, Button calls $1, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: ($8) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (8 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG bets $4.75, MP1 folds, Garland calls $4.75, MP3 folds, CO folds, Button folds, SB folds, BB folds.

Turn: ($17.50) J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG bets $4.75, Garland calls $4.75.

River: ($27) A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG checks, Garland bets $20, UTG ???

Skunkbush · #2 08-19-2004, 05:43 AM

I had this same exact hand 20 minutes ago. Bet pretty high(finished the rest of his stack to call, which he did), and he threw out his pocket 3's [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

schwza · #3 08-19-2004, 09:23 AM

[ QUOTE ]
he checked to me, and the pot was $27.

Now it isn't my style to underbet the pot ever, so I put in $20.

[/ QUOTE ]

well, i'm not even going to comment on that.

i think i like your flat call on the flop. i was originally thinking you should raise, but the problem is that both a 3 and a strong Q might come over the top, leaving you guessing.

i would raise the turn though. he looks to me like he's either on a flush draw or he has a Q with a mediocre kicker, and i would say the Q is more likely. he'll probably pay off a smallish raise (maybe up to 17 or so) with either and reraise with a 3.

when you spike the boat on the river, i'd bet smaller. the A is a scare card for him if he's got a Q. if he missed his flush draw, he's not calling anything. if he's got a decent 3, he's probably a little more likely to check-raise a smallish bet and flat call a bigger one.

Garland · #4 08-20-2004, 03:51 AM

UTG folded. Darn it. I must train myself to bet small at the river...

Garland

pilamsolo · #5 08-20-2004, 05:28 AM

[ QUOTE ]
when you spike the boat on the river, i'd bet smaller. the A is a scare card for him if he's got a Q. if he missed his flush draw, he's not calling anything. if he's got a decent 3, he's probably a little more likely to check-raise a smallish bet and flat call a bigger one.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is excellent analysis. I think that he most likely holds a hand like KQ which is why I also like a raise on the turn. I think your $20 bet looks too much what it is, a good sized value bet. I would either price him in with a $10 or so bet or else make an overbet like $40 (especially if he likes to play sheriff) and hope he thinks you missed your flush draw.

Another problem I just considered is that if he put you on a flush draw he probably assumed it's the nut, which makes the ace on the river even scarier for him. If he does hold a queen I think it's just going to be tough to get paid off here, and you might be better off making a big bet and hoping he either thinks you're bluffing or actually has a 3.

jacksfull · #6 08-20-2004, 10:29 AM

Your bet on the river is not too bad. You may have been paid off by betting smaller, but I doubt that you were going to get called on the river unless you were up against Q-A, Q-J or a 3. I don't think you were in this case, so all you got was what you got. Not your fault it wasn't more.

jslag · #7 08-20-2004, 11:05 AM

Raise the turn. You let him see the river for barely 1/4 of the pot.

SossMan · #8 08-20-2004, 12:18 PM

[ QUOTE ]
giving me a boat, he checked to me, and the pot was $27.

Now it isn't my style to underbet the pot ever, so I put in $20.

[/ QUOTE ]

Okay, I'll bite...what am I missing?

Ulysses · #9 08-21-2004, 01:12 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
giving me a boat, he checked to me, and the pot was $27.

Now it isn't my style to underbet the pot ever, so I put in $20.

[/ QUOTE ]

Okay, I'll bite...what am I missing?

[/ QUOTE ]

By "it isn't my style to underbet the pot ever" he meant "it is my style to underbet the pot ever."

Garland · #10 08-22-2004, 05:43 AM

"underbet" by my definition means betting significantly less than the pot, which means to me, I don't bet less than 1/2 the pot and more along the lines of 70% to 100%.

Sorry for the confusion... [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

Garland