XP SP2 Be careful !!

[Lori]

You chose not to apply the fix.

How can I choose not to apply something I never knew existed.

I didn't even know updates existed until a few months ago and I've been online for several years now.
As soon as I discovered windows update, I asked several of my onlne friends about how safe the site was and none of them had ever heard of it or done an update in their lives.

People can't fix stuff if they are not aware of the problems and to blame me because I didn't search for 'Is my computer likely to be shagged' or 'How do I fix a virus that isn't out yet' is totally unfair.


Lori

[shandrakor]

The software was written in such a manner that these things were possible, I have never recieved a warning, or email from Microsoft to tell me that these things were possible, nothing was included in the product information that this would happen and _I_ am not qualified to stop such things.
To blame _ME_ the person who buys the product because I'm not capable of writing my own is a disgrace.

There is no such thing as perfectly written software. The idea of bug-free software is a rediculous myth.

Please understand, I'm not calling you a bad person for not keeping your system up to date and secure. You're in very good company. There are tens of millions, perhaps hundreds of millions of people just like you, well-educated, rational, reasonable people who for whatever reason don't even have the barest knowledge of what you need to do to protect your computer from attack.

Let me see if I can find a good metaphor for this. Imagine you're a new driver, and instead of going to any sort of driving school, you built a knowledge of how to drive out of trial-and-error, and some general suggestions you gleaned from other people who learned the same way you are right now. Because of this, you were never taught the correct use of turn signals, or rear and side-view mirrors. The concept of a blind spot has never occurred to you. Eventually, that's going to cause an accident, and who's fault is that? Well, it's a failure of education, but the error that caused the accident was still yours. That's all
I meant by "your fault."

All of the information you need is at your fingertips. I expect you never read the software manual that came with Windows when you bought it, didn't go through the help files that came built into the application, never clicked on the link in your start menu labeled "Windows Update". When you first started it up, and it asked you what you wanted to do for automatic updates, you picked an option at random, or picked whatever sounded like it would leave you alone the most. It never occurred to you that things like Blaster or Sasser could happen, because they'd never happened before to any of the people you gleaned your computer knowledge from, and they never warned you it was possible.

In fact, before Blaster, the scope of the danger wasn't really understood by anyone, and I especially don't blame people for being caught by that one. People who caught Sasser piss me off though, cause it means they learned nothing from the first incident.

In short, you're right. You're not qualified to keep your system secure. And even if this conversation convinces you to learn how to safely "drive" your computer, there's still a hundred million people out there on the internet who don't know crap, and don't want to learn. So SP2 takes the decisions out of their hands, and if it causes some inconvenience to a few thousand of them, I'm not going to lose any sleep over it.

[shandrakor]

I agree, at least in the generic sense, but I have ZoneAlarm Pro. Will I run into any problems when I apply SP2?

If you use a third-party firewall that you would prefer over the built-in windows firewall, then after installing SP2, you need to go into the security panel, disable the windows firewall, and select the option for "I have a firewall of my own that I will manually maintain" or something to that effect.

The same is true if you have an antivirus application that is not one of the big-market ones, which won't be autodetected by SP2.

[Lori]

I expect you never read the software manual that came with Windows when you bought it,

One of my biggest angers about the whole thing is that having gone through three computers, I have NEVER had a manual for windows.

In fact I don't know anyone who has ever seen such a book.

I was going to reply to your post that you were wrong because in anything else I do I get told how to use it, whilst with a computer I'm pretty much on my own.

A lot of people don't use forums and the suchlike and therefore get no exposure at all to this kind of information.

I would be interested to know where such manuals come from.(I do have the windows XP packet with the disk number/security number on it, but have never seen a book or booklet telling me what to do)

Lori

[Lori]

If I leave my doors and windows open in my house, and I get burgled, it is not my fault.

It may be lax of me, and even silly, but it still isn't my fault.

It is the fault of the person who broke into my house.

I believe that companies like Microsoft should stop these things at source rather than leaving my doors and windows open for me to run around closing and either shut the doors and windows for me, or catch the criminals.

Blaming me for not tidying up their mess whilst simultaneously not catching the burglars does nothing for my confidence.

Lori

[shandrakor]

*checks his XP box*
*frowns*
*searches his desk*
*frowns*
*does a quick web search*
*looks like an ass*

Alright, looks like XP never contained a manual. I know for certain that 98 had a manual, and I guess I just made a poor assumption, as did the XP development team when they thought that customers would appreciate including everything right there in the software. Unfortunately, people are even less likely to read help files than they are to read a manual. Sure is cheaper to do things that way, though.

Anyway, if you are genuinely interested in learning all about XP, the best rated book on Amazon appears to be "Windows XP Home Edition: The Missing Manual"

I'll save you the time of the complaint and say right out that I agree with you, a good solid manual should absolutely have shipped with the product. It IS a pain that learning how to use your computer is an additional expense on your part.

That said, I seriously recommend developing a deeper level of computer literacy. You'll feel a lot more comfortable dealing with the unexpected, and hopefully won't feel like it's you vs. the computer anymore.

[Lori]

That said, I seriously recommend developing a deeper level of computer literacy. You'll feel a lot more comfortable dealing with the unexpected, and hopefully won't feel like it's you vs. the computer anymore.

It all began with the Amiga (Having no manual).

To make you feel a little better, I often google processes that I don't understand and check that they are supposed to be there, and when I'm feeling brave, even look at what they are doing.

I have looked at the help files, but they are pretty incoherent unless you actually NEED the help (As opposed to 'hey, what might be useful here?'.

Once again, I appreciate your time, and will see how the next few weeks pan out before updating.

Thanks

Lori

[Ed Miller]

I was lucky enough to avoid these two viruses, but to blame ME or whoever got them for the failings of the software is utterly beyond my capacity to comprehend.

IMO, the "blame" (if it's worth playing that game at all) is probably to be shared between the software manufacturer and the owner of the compromised computer.

Think about it this way, Lori.

Microsoft creates a product. It puts forth a good faith effort (I worked there, and yes, they do put forth a good faith effort) to release a product that is as free of exploitable errors as possible.

However, whenever you build something as complex as Windows, it is essentially COMPLETELY IMPOSSIBLE to make it airtight. There will somewhere, somehow, be an exploitable bug.

The same could be said for an airplane. It is a complex machine, and Boeing does a fine job of producing a product that performs as safely as can be expected. But say tomorrow someone, perhaps a terrorist, finds a "bug." Someone figures out that you can transmit a specific pulse of exact frequency, amplitude, and duration that temporarily interferes with the navigational control. This is not a pulse that would occur naturally but once in a billion years. But now that someone has figured it out, he can use it again and again to compromise the safety of the planes.

Naturally Boeing would jump at the chance to fix this problem. In fact, within a few days of hearing about this, they have figured out the modification necessary to defeat it. So they issue a recall and offer to fix every plane for free.

Most airlines get their planes fixed, but some don't. Perhaps they don't because they do not know about the recall, or perhaps it is because they think they are better off not having the fix. In any event, four months later, terrorists bring down two of these planes by exploiting this "bug."

Whose fault is it? Well, obviously it's the terrorists' fault. But is it also Boeing's fault? Is it the airline owners' fault?

Can Boeing be expected to produce an airtight 100% unexploitable product under any bizarre circumstances that a terrorist could dream up? Surely they cannot be expected to fix the problem any faster than a few days or provide repairs any cheaper than free.

Why didn't the airline owners get their planes fixed. Because they didn't hear about the recall? Well, lots of airline owners DID hear about it, so what did those who didn't hear do wrong? Were they not paying attention? Did they not understand what they were hearing? Whose fault is it that they didn't hear about it or understand?

Microsoft cannot contact everyone individually to notify them of a patch. They don't have your contact information unless you registered your copy. They cannot send you email, for they do not have your email address. So they post a notification that a patch has been posted, and they install a client in XP to check for these notifications periodically. They turn that on by default.

The guy who wrote this post just told you to turn that notification system off. If you do that, is it Microsoft's fault that you do not update your system when these strange bugs are unearthed by people who spend 12 hours a day trying to find them, or is it yours?

Computers are not toys. For better or for worse, they run the world economy now, and the Internet is the conduit through which these machines communicate. By owning a computer and connecting it to the Internet, you have accepted at least some responsibility for maintaining your machine and making sure that it is safe and will not bring harm to others. If you are too ignorant to run your machine responsibly, is that really entirely Microsoft's fault?

[shandrakor]

It may be lax of me, and even silly, but it still isn't my fault.

Then you and I just disagree on the word "fault."

whilst simultaneously not catching the burglars does nothing for my confidence.

Actually, thanks to Microsoft offering a $250,000 reward for information leading to the conviction of virus developers, they did catch the guy, barely a week later:

Sasser Arrest Made; Microsoft Cites Informants' Role

[Lori]

If you are too ignorant to run your machine responsibly, is that really entirely Microsoft's fault?

I honestly believe that a note saying that such a thing as Windows updates existed, and what they do, would have made an enormous difference to my attitude in this thread.

I was lucky that an IM friend from the states mentioned he was doing updates one day last year, and naturally I checked it out.
As I have previously stated, not one of my friends who plays online had ever heard of this system for upgrading as they had all assumed that antivirus software was enough.

Just a little pamphlet in with the disk and I'd feel like I was wrong here.

Lori