Raise the flop?

[Rococo]

5-10 NLH 5-handed

Hero is on the button. New to the game so I don't have a read on the players.

UTG -- $435
UTG+1 -- $600
Button -- $745
SB -- $310
BB -- $810

Hero has 5 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

Before the flop, UTG makes it $20 to go, UTG+1 folds, Hero calls. SB and BB fold.

Flop -- 4 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

UTG bets $30, Hero calls.

Turn -- 3 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

UTG checks, Hero bets $75, UTG folds.

Two main questions --

1) Should I have raised the flop? My best guess was that UTG held overcards like KJ or KQ but an overpair obviously was a possibility.

2) Was the size of the turn bet correct?

Comments welcome

[cornell2005]

if you thought he was on overcards like you said, you want to raise

i dont see much of a point in overbetting the turn. if you put him on overcards, you can check the turn. if he had pockets that would pay you off, he probably would have bet the turn.

[Rococo]

Turn bet was roughly 2/3 the size of the pot. Do you regard that as an overbet under the circumstances? I still have some vulnerability to backdoor flush draws, so ending the hand here may have merit.

[Rococo]

BK,

The more I think about it, the more dubious I am about checking the turn. If he has overcards (like KJ), he may not pay me off even if he improves. Meanwhile, checking potentially gives him a free chance to draw at the remaining clubs if he caught a backdoor draw.

The problem with my logic is that my turn bet probably should have been pot-sized or greater if I really am concerned about suited overcards.

[cornell2005]

i think he will absolutly pay you off if he hits one of his overcards on the river and you bet correctly.

plus the equity from betting vs a backdoor flush is pretty low, and the chances of him having it is also pretty low.

the only real arguement i can see for betting the turn is that you will get more money vs overpairs below Qs if you fire the turn, rather than the river. however, i dont think this is tooo important because
1. chances he had those pocket pairs pf is not hugely likely
2. the chances he wants to check-call 88-JJ on the turn is unlikely, as it is a pretty bad play
3. you only lose action if you check the turn if an overcard to his pocket falls on the river. this seems to be about 50/50

anyways, since he was put on overcards by the hero, betting the turn seems pretty bad. you want to either give him a chacne to catch up, or bluff the river when a scare card falls. even if he has high pockets and checked the turn planning to check call or check raise, checking behind the turn may pay you off the same as if you bet it, as you will get the chance to c/r the river.

overall, i just think that you are putting him on 2 diamonds over all other combinations, where alot of hands are much more likely. even if you put 4 differnt types of hands on equal probability, with a fulsh draw being one of them, checking still seems better. who knows, even if he is on a draw and misses, he still may bluff the river.

p.s. i miscalculated the pot on the turn, so it wasnt an overbet. i dislike overbet the most, as it seems silly to try to make an unlikely hand fold, as well as all other possible hands, where there is potential profit to be made vs most possible hands here

[TomCollins]

I may be crazy...

But I check the turn. The only way you are in a lot of trouble is if he is on the diamond draw (highly unlikely), and the diamond hits.

This easily lets him bluff the river, or improve on the river, but be 2nd best. You also didn't say where you were playing, so this play only works against opponents who aren't super weak tight (a la PokerStars).

[Chazbot2000]

I do prefer raising the flop. A bet like $30 from your opponent is a decent sign that he does have high cards. Raise on the flop and he'll either fold right there or check to you on the turn. In that case you can also check the turn and hope he trys to bluff on the river.