Lost in a NL Game -- SEND HELP

Malarky · #1 08-09-2004, 04:29 PM

I'm not going to lie to anyone: I might be the worst NL player on these entire forums. As such, I present a hand for analysis, since God knows I didn't have a clue:

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (6 max, 4 handed)

saw flop|saw showdown

BB ($48.05)
UTG ($50.50)
Hero ($71.30)
SB ($178.29)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
UTG calls $0.50, Hero calls $0.50, SB raises to $1, BB raises to $3, UTG folds, Hero calls $2.50, SB calls $2.

Flop: ($9.50) 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB bets $1, BB raises to $10, Hero calls $10, SB calls $9.

Turn: ($39.50) A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets $25, SB folds, BB calls $25.

River: ($89.50) J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $33.3 (All-In), BB calls $10.05 (All-In).

Final Pot: $132.85
Main Pot: $109.60, between BB and Hero.
Pot 2: $23.25, returned to Hero.

I figured I'd call the preflop reraise witht he 3s because if I hit the set I'd have 2 people with at least decent hands to get action from. I think that may have been wrong, but I think the turn bet accidentally helped me. Thoughts?

bsiu5 · #2 08-09-2004, 05:09 PM

what's wrong w/ your play. i like it. i think maybe sb raises preflop cause it was limped to him. BB might actually have something since the reraise. you flop a set. SB bets to gather info. BB probably has AK, AQ or Pockets. you call the flop bets... turn comes Ace. which you bet representing the Ace for $25. you get one caller and put him all-in his stack.

the only hand i see you lose to is AA. if BB had QQ he would have slow-played. i think he might have AK. if he had AA he's going to the felt with you no matter what you do in the hand. Even if you did put him on AA why would you not want him to be in the hand... he needs 2 outs to beat you. more times than not you'll win. sucks if you lose but you were maximizing your chance to get the most money in the pot without having to lose your whole stack. I wouldn't have felt comfortable w/ SB staying in, because if he had pockets and his caught he could have taken your stack. so i think you played it fine. If you all-in on the flop if BB has AA he'd call or lay-down, he got him to go all-in which is what you wanted.

Rah · #3 08-09-2004, 05:39 PM

I like the play as well. There are many losing cards BB could have which he calls down with. The only thing I'm afraid of is BB having Ax of spades. It wouldn't be the first time a bad player overestimates the flush draw only to make it on the river [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]

JrJordan · #4 08-09-2004, 05:53 PM

I don't see anything wrong with the call preflop. You have a relatively deep stack, as does the SB who initially raised. The BB's stack is a bit smaller, but odds are you can get your money's worth when you hit that set i in 8.5 times.

On the flop, you've already got a lot of action to you. BB's bet seems a lot like an overpair, espeically after his preflop action. AA and KK ar emost likely, though QQ with top set is certainly a possibility. I'm not sure what the SB might have, min bets are always so fishy. The call is fine here if you plan on check raising the turn. A reraise isn't awful here either because you might get BB to play back at you.

Your turn bet seems okay here, but you need to be careful. If he was reraising with an overpair, chances are he could've hit it, and is smooth calling you on the turn. The other possibility is that he raised on the flop to try and buy a free river card on a flush draw. Either way, the turn bet is fine.

Ugly river card to see. Makes another possible set if he reraised with JJ, and it makes the flush. BB is pot committed either way, unless he has a missed flush draw, and will most likely call the last $10 he has. I'm not sure if betting here is +EV for you. I think he's calling regardless, so it's just a matter of how often you're ahead. The chance that he has a big 2 pair or AK make it worth betting the last 10 though, so I push as well. Good play altogether, not sure why you're so mad about it.

SkippingGoat · #5 08-09-2004, 06:03 PM

I reraise the flop. You already have a bet and a raise in front of you. If someone has an overpair they're going to pay you off. If they only have a draw there's no point in letting them draw free. Furthermore, a minbet is often a semi-bluff in these games and by just calling the raise you give the semibluffer odds to chase on the flush.

RichB · #6 08-09-2004, 06:18 PM

I disagree with the people who like the preflop call. The problem is that it's already a raise and a re-raise in front of you.

Many people would make this kind of call based on implied odds, they say the other players have deep stacks and you could bust them if you hit your set. That's possible, of course. But it's almost 8-1 against hitting your set - how much are you going to dump in calling preflop raises the times you miss? And there's no guarantee that you will bust anyone, the other players may be able to get away from their hands. And lets not forget that sometimes you will lose to a bigger set or bigger full house, and those times you will probably lose your entire stack.

No, the idea with hands like 33 is to get the money in after you've made your set, you don't want to have to call a big raise to get there. I think a re-raise up to 6x the big blind is too much to call cold there.

Rich

ddubois · #7 08-09-2004, 06:35 PM

How weak-tight is checking behind on the river?

SkippingGoat · #8 08-09-2004, 07:13 PM

By the 5-10 rule a call of $3 is OK and I think you do have the implied odds with a couple players against you. The real danger lies in the original raiser coming back over the top. Then you just put in 6xBB without even getting to see a flop. For this reason I'd call a raise but not a reraise with the original raiser still to act behind me.