Time for my medicine

BarryDingle · #1 08-04-2004, 02:12 PM

I've been lurking here for a few months. I've had some success on UB, but I feel like I'm not improving as much as I'd like. I recently got Poker Tracker to help find leaks in my game and started playing at Party. I've also decided to start posting hands and take my medicine from the more experienced players here to help me improve faster.

I don't think that I play overcards well, so here is a hand from last night that I don't feel good about.

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. UTG+1 posts a blind of $0.50.
1 fold, UTG+1 (poster) checks, MP1 raises, 2 folds, CO calls, 2 folds, Hero calls, UTG+1 folds.

 I should have re-raised preflop...

Flop: (7.50 SB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, MP1 bets, CO calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (5.25 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, MP1 bets, CO calls, Hero calls.

River: (8.25 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, MP1 bets, CO folds, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 10.25 BB
Main Pot: 10.25 BB, between Hero and MP1.

Comments on all streets welcome...Let me have it.

kgrad5 · #2 08-04-2004, 02:20 PM

this hand would have played out much differently if you had raised pf. so besides that (raise this pf!!), why did you just call the king? if your still in the hand your either a) drawing to the gutshot, in which case fold the turn, your not getting odds, or b, you feel your overcard outs are clean, in which case raise the river, thats the card you were looking for. if you think your overs are tainted, fold. your hand is inconsistent and played weak imo.

Peter Harris · #3 08-04-2004, 02:24 PM

the AKo was a big leak for me at the start of my campaign (i was -1.47BB/hand!), by chasing to the river against any pair.

After you coldcall PF (mistake, a 3-bet is needed here), the pot is fairly small and you could have tainted [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] outs, so folding the flop is okay i reckon (weak-tight thinking?).

The turn - if you count all 10 outs (J's, K's, A's) for making your hand, you can call the turn. Again, if you are worried about the hearts or an A/K not being enough to win, i guess folding on the flop would have been good.

River - you hit your hand and made no effort to see if TPTK is best. What does MP1 raise with? KQ? QT? JJ? i reckon you can raise the river and be best here most of the time, especially without CO contesting the river.

Comments welcome as this post has even flummoxed me,
Pete Harris

chief444 · #4 08-04-2004, 02:31 PM

[ QUOTE ]
if your still in the hand your either a) drawing to the gutshot, in which case fold the turn, your not getting odds, or b, you feel your overcard outs are clean, in which case raise the river, thats the card you were looking for. if you think your overs are tainted, fold.

[/ QUOTE ]
kgrad,

It is not as clear as this. If you're overcards might be tainted, you don't discard them as outs completely. But you don't necessarily raise if you catch one either. In this case I think I may raise but it's somewhat close.

I do agree that 3-betting pf would be better.

I actually think the hand was played OK. At least there aren't any substantial mistakes. There are several fairly close decisions that probably don't make a huge difference in expectation either way. I do think if pf was 3-bet it plays out much differently.

BarryDingle · #5 08-04-2004, 02:35 PM

[ QUOTE ]
the AKo was a big leak for me at the start of my campaign (i was -1.47BB/hand!), by chasing to the river against any pair.

After you coldcall PF (mistake, a 3-bet is needed here), the pot is fairly small and you could have tainted [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] outs, so folding the flop is okay i reckon (weak-tight thinking?).

The turn - if you count all 10 outs (J's, K's, A's) for making your hand, you can call the turn. Again, if you are worried about the hearts or an A/K not being enough to win, i guess folding on the flop would have been good.

River - you hit your hand and made no effort to see if TPTK is best. What does MP1 raise with? KQ? QT? JJ? i reckon you can raise the river and be best here most of the time, especially without CO contesting the river.

Comments welcome as this post has even flummoxed me,
Pete Harris

[/ QUOTE ]

I realize that I should've 3 bet preflop, but I had just missed with AKo a few hands earlier...I know it doesn't matter, and I shouldn't think like that. I'm working on it.

On the flop, I felt that I had maybe 4 outs with the over cards and a backdoor straight with a couple of hearts on board that tainted my overcard outs. I considered folding...

On the turn, I picked up at least 3 more outs with the gutshot if the J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] isn't good, so I have maybe 7 outs here. Worth a call I thought.

On the river, I agree that I played this weak, but I was worried about AA, KK, AJ, or KQ. Monsters under the bed I guess...

kgrad5 · #6 08-04-2004, 02:41 PM

i understand what your saying, but our hero is sticking around for a reason, and since he called the turn with only around 6-1 (i think, not looking at the post at the moment) i have to assume he thinks his overcards are outs too, so once the king falls he has just hit one of the cards he is waiting for, so the benefit of raising this is he will probably get called by hands worse then his and reraised by a hand that beats him to which he can safely fold. while the call might be a safe play i dont like it so much and i would opt for the raise which has more EV imo (since he expects his overcards to be clean..)

meep_42 · #7 08-04-2004, 02:52 PM

PF: 3-bet
Flop: Lead out, call what looks like the inevitable raise
Turn: Check/call
River: Check/call

If I had to guess, i'd say you're up against 66, JJ-AA, or AQ, but my PP .50/1 experience isn't exactly comprehensive.

-d

BarryDingle · #8 08-04-2004, 02:54 PM

[ QUOTE ]
i understand what your saying, but our hero is sticking around for a reason, and since he called the turn with only around 6-1 (i think, not looking at the post at the moment) i have to assume he thinks his overcards are outs too, so once the king falls he has just hit one of the cards he is waiting for, so the benefit of raising this is he will probably get called by hands worse then his and reraised by a hand that beats him to which he can safely fold. while the call might be a safe play i dont like it so much and i would opt for the raise which has more EV imo (since he expects his overcards to be clean..)

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree that I didn't play the river correctly. I was counting my overcards as half outs because of the flush draw and potential domination with the preflop raise in front of me (I guess it would be reverse domination with AQ or KQ). Would you have bet out and called a raise or gone for a check-raise here? I don't want to be 3-bet on a check-raise here, so I think I should have bet out on the river. Thoughts?

chief444 · #9 08-04-2004, 02:56 PM

Actually I was thinking you had position for some reason. I would have led the river and called a raise.

kgrad5 · #10 08-04-2004, 02:58 PM

woah, i also thought you had position, what am i taking? yes lead the river and call a raise