Pot Limit Stud

[fsuplayer]

Hi all-

My first time in this forum.

I have never really played stud before other than for nickels and dimes when I was 9.

I have a home game that is normally NLHE .50-1 blinds with a $100 buy in.
We have recently included PL O8 and after I suggested it two weeks ago, we have been playing about 15%-20% PL Stud high.

Since I dont have any stud backround, does anyone know of any online articles, or maybe a couple of great posts that I could look up for some info concerning this game, or 7 stud in general.

I have Ciaffone's Big bet book at home, but I am at the office, will this book be sufficient for what I am looking for?



Thanks a lot for any help,

fsuplayer

[Nick_Foxx]

ive never tried it, but pot limit stud sounds like it would be pretty boring - you will probably never get the right odds to draw out on a big pair betting the pot

mike

[Andy B]

The Ciaffone/Reuben book has the only substantial discussion of the game that I've ever read.

I disagree with most of the reasons that people give when saying that stud isn't a good game for pot-limit. You don't see the river card, so you don't know whether you have the nuts. I believe that the essence of poker lies in those situations where you have a good hand, and you know that the other guy has a good hand. You think you're a little better, so you put your money in, but you have some lingering doubt. It is this doubt that gives the game its excitement. In hold'em, you will occasionally make the nuts, say by having an Ace-high flush on an unpaired board. Nut hands are commonplace in Omaha. In stud/8 you will sometimes know that you have the only low, or the best low, or you may have a big hand when it is clear that the other players are going low. In high-only stud, it is very rare for you to have a lock, and that is part of why it is my favorite casino game.

I've also heard it argued that stud is a poor big-bet game because all of the money tends to go in too early in the hand? Ever watch these tournaments on TV? If the money goes in too soon, make the stacks deeper.

And so you can't (profitably) draw out on the other guy's big pair. Boo-freaking-hoo.

All this from a guy who's never played pot-limit stud. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[sketchy1]

it's kind of fun for a change, but i really do enjoy the real science-like betting of limit stud than the more aggressive bet the pot and get the draws out right away pot-limit stud.

it's the same reason they don't play no-limit omaha high.

[nicky g]

In a deepstack game you will certainly have the implied odds.

[nicky g]

Dr Mahmood Mahmood's The Science of Poker has a section on PL stud. It;s an OK book, a bit weird in bits. I don;t know anything about PL stud and I don;t remember the section very well, I'm afraid. Also, Prima is offering Pl stud games if you want some further practice.

[turnipmonster]

I have played stud half pot limit (max bet/raise is half the pot) and it's interesting and fun. I would think that stud played pot limit would be a very high variance game.

it would be cool if ray zee posted his thoughts on pot limit stud, as I'm sure he has played it more than any of us [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img].

--turnipmonster

[Al Mirpuri]

You will be home and studying Ciaffone's NL book but the Seven Card Stud section was written by Stewart Reuben - the advice is on the money and he writes well.

[ProfessorJC]

Its an immensely low variance game.
The best players in the Vic card room used to hardly have a losing session (the game no longer runs).

I've played it a fair amount. The games tend to have a cycle. They start with people playing like they're playing limit stud, charging with their big pair, making suicidal raises to knock people out.

With deep money, the strong players burn them a few times, investing pennies to win pounds with hidden pairs that trip up.

Soon enough players get very nervous of facing big bets on late streets, because they've become used to those big bets being based on big hands. They start throwing their hands away. Now you can call to bluff these players as long as your image is right.

Once the players get past this stage, the game becomes very interesting. A good blend of patience, aggression, people reading and bluffing.

[bygmesterf]

[ QUOTE ]
Its an immensely low variance game.
The best players in the Vic card room used to hardly have a losing session (the game no longer runs).

[/ QUOTE ]

This is probably why the game died out. Same reason no one plays Hi draw, or NL Lowball. Low Varience means that the money is only flowing one way
[ QUOTE ]

I've played it a fair amount. The games tend to have a cycle. They start with people playing like they're playing limit stud, charging with their big pair, making suicidal raises to knock people out.


[/ QUOTE ]

This is big fault that newbie pot limit players make. Do not escalate the pot unless you have a very good chance to win the pot. Very small raises on the earlier rounds can cause later pots to become gigantic. Something as silly as a blind raise or a kill, can create a darmaticly bigger final pot.

[ QUOTE ]

With deep money, the strong players burn them a few times, investing pennies to win pounds with hidden pairs that trip up.


[/ QUOTE ]

The Counter strategy that I've seen is to play a medium stacks very agressively. Then the Big stacks don't have the implied odds to fool around with trying to make hidden trips on you.

[ QUOTE ]

Soon enough players get very nervous of facing big bets on late streets, because they've become used to those big bets being based on big hands. They start throwing their hands away. Now you can call to bluff these players as long as your image is right.


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The most frightening thing in a PL game is somone with position merely calling you when you are representing a big hand.

Related to that is the tendancy for players to become very weak tight, since people expect you to be an honest bettor. Still there are several standard bluffing points in a hand (Paired Door Card, Catch suited connector, make an open pair by 5th).

[ QUOTE ]

Once the players get past this stage, the game becomes very interesting. A good blend of patience, aggression, people reading and bluffing.

[/ QUOTE ]

I tended to find in my limited experience that the game tends to become like 1-5 Stud. Players are loose in unraised pots looking to make monsters on the cheap, and very tight in raised pots playing a game of who is tightest.