Premium hand on the button.

[Chazbot2000]

Er... what's your point? That a simultaneous overcard, flush and straight draw with 2 additional callers makes calling a pot sized bet correct?

[CurryLover]

[ QUOTE ]
Er... what's your point? That a simultaneous overcard, flush and straight draw with 2 additional callers makes calling a pot sized bet correct?

[/ QUOTE ]

Er... that is part of my point, yes. Even without the additional callers you can re-raise all-in with that particular draw.

Besides, as you know, you don't need pot-odds in the limit sense to play lesser draws in PL/NL.

[Richie Rich]

That isn't what I said, Mike. I simply corrected the subject of this thread.

AA/KK/QQ/AK are typically known as "premium hands". AQ is a good hand...but can very well be a second-best hand when 3-4 players have entered the pot. Especially in a no-limit game.

[ML4L]

Hey Mike,

[ QUOTE ]
on the button a few, say 3 or 4 limpers in front.

Game is NLHE 10 handed - without going into who is weak, tricky or aggressive what is your play here. Blinds are 5-10.

Raise how much,
Limp
Fold

Just wondering what the young guns do here.

[/ QUOTE ]

With a premium hand on the button, I'd probably make it around 60 to go. With AQo, I'd call... [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

There's no way to answer the question well without taking the specific limpers and stack sizes into account. Sometimes you're going to want to raise your AQ (probably a decent sized raise to knock most of the limpers out) and other times limp with it. I'd be inclined to raise if I played better than most of the limpers postflop, the stacks were either shortish or really deep, or if I thought I could get it heads-up against a poor player and/or a dominated hand. If one or two of those conditions weren't met, or if one of the limpers was likely to hold a big hand, I'd likely limp along. I can't imagine folding.

Anybody who tries to give you an iron-clad answer to your question is probably wrong...

Hope this helps.

ML4L

[Chazbot2000]

OK, so you're just pointing out a bunch of obvious exceptions to an otherwise simple rule. Thanks for posting.

[Kirkrrr]

Me: 67s in MP3 after 3 limpers; Raise to 5xBB (too much, normally, but the norm for the table I was playing). CO and Button folds, Blinds fold, limpers humor me and call.

Flop: A Q 8 rainbow, me "Doh!"
Checked around to yours truly, fire a pot-sized bet, everyone folds.

The point I'm trying to make is that in NL, AQ is a powerful hand on the button against several limpers. I'll raise every time and narrow it down to 1 or 2 players, whom I'll hopefully be able to manage. The majority of the time, you'll be able to take it down on the flop. If they limped with AA/KK hoping to re-raise, now is their chance and they will most likely do that, at which point you'll have some tough decisions to make.

The mistake people make with AQo is to either raise with it from an early position, or enter into raised and re-raised pots from a later one. But if you're on the button and decide to limp in after several people already have, you might need to re-evaluate your style of play.

Kirk R.

[Kirkrrr]

I'd just like to add real quick that it's also dependent on the players involved, your table, stack sizes, etc. But it's always going to be dependent on those factors, so lets just assume that the conditions are met...

[jcaesar]

I suppose it depends on the situation and your image at the table, but I was thinking about this article more in terms of relative hands and maximizing value than an exercise in pot odds. I understand what you mean about keeping the pot small, but I think it's even more important in NL to have players holding a top pair with a weaker kicker than yours thinking that their hand is best in this situation, so that you can get more action from these hands.

[Richie Rich]

Kirk-
I never said that you can't raise AQo from the button -- in fact, I think raising this hand is a +EV move in certain situations.

Feel free to re-read my original post when you get a chance. My response was actually a lot more elementary than you're giving it credit it for. Maybe you'll see what I was getting at.

[toby]

touché