SSH Reviewed

[Ed Miller]

What I'm curious about is whether it would be possible to take Ed Miller's advice on post-flop play and boil it down into a more user-friendly Jones'-style presentation. Maybe it isn't -- and maybe that's why previous "beginner's" books tend to skimp on post-flop strategy -- but it'd be interesting to see someone try. Maybe in 3rd edition WLLH...

I definitely think it's possible. That's not the book I wanted to write this time, but I am considering it for a future book. There's no reason you can't simplify it by leaving out most of the math and exceptions, but keep the basic aggressive tone. But it would require a brand new book, not a 3rd edition of WLLH.

[vulturesrow]

Ed,

I have to say I am very surprised to hear you say that. To me, the math and noting the exceptions are some of the most valuable parts of your book. Im not sure if I think this book would be as good if I didnt get the math behind it and understand the exceptions. Maybe you are talking about something a little more beginner friendly, possibly leaving out some of the smaller edge pushing plays?

Chris

[Ed Miller]

I have to say I am very surprised to hear you say that. To me, the math and noting the exceptions are some of the most valuable parts of your book. Im not sure if I think this book would be as good if I didnt get the math behind it and understand the exceptions. Maybe you are talking about something a little more beginner friendly, possibly leaving out some of the smaller edge pushing plays?

I want to be clear. I do NOT wish I had written SSH in that way. SSH came out roughly the way I envisioned it, and it was definitely the best book for me to do FIRST. I too think the exceptions and math are crucial parts of the book.

Now I'm thinking about a possible future book. One option is a book aimed at beginners... similar to WLLH. Keep the logic simple, the math very simple, and give quick rules of thumb for playing certain situations. Like 100 pages or so.

Matt Ruff asked if such a book could be written using the aggressive style from SSH. I believe it could.

Now I'm not sure whether it's worth writing. There are many beginners books out, including WLLH, and most of them fill the "stop me from hemorrahaging money" role fine. But I think it COULD be written.

[vulturesrow]

[ QUOTE ]
I have to say I am very surprised to hear you say that. To me, the math and noting the exceptions are some of the most valuable parts of your book. Im not sure if I think this book would be as good if I didnt get the math behind it and understand the exceptions. Maybe you are talking about something a little more beginner friendly, possibly leaving out some of the smaller edge pushing plays?

I want to be clear. I do NOT wish I had written SSH in that way. SSH came out roughly the way I envisioned it, and it was definitely the best book for me to do FIRST. I too think the exceptions and math are crucial parts of the book.

Now I'm thinking about a possible future book. One option is a book aimed at beginners... similar to WLLH. Keep the logic simple, the math very simple, and give quick rules of thumb for playing certain situations. Like 100 pages or so.

Matt Ruff asked if such a book could be written using the aggressive style from SSH. I believe it could.

Now I'm not sure whether it's worth writing. There are many beginners books out, including WLLH, and most of them fill the "stop me from hemorrahaging money" role fine. But I think it COULD be written.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ed,

I understand. I dont think I worded my reply very well..I guess the point I have some real question about is whether you could make a book with rules of thumb for certain situations and still retain the aggressiveness. Your book teaches selective agression carried out after intelligent analysis of the situation. Thats all I was saying. I was pretty sure SSH came out to your liking knowing how hard you worked on it.

chris

[Matt Ruff]

[ QUOTE ]
What I'm curious about is whether it would be possible to take Ed Miller's advice on post-flop play and boil it down into a more user-friendly Jones'-style presentation. Maybe it isn't -- and maybe that's why previous "beginner's" books tend to skimp on post-flop strategy -- but it'd be interesting to see someone try. Maybe in 3rd edition WLLH...


I definitely think it's possible. That's not the book I wanted to write this time,

[/ QUOTE ]

I got that, and my comment wasn't meant as criticism of your work. For the kind of book it's obviously intended to be, SSH is pretty accessible. But if it had been offered to me as my very first hold 'em guide, I would have found it terribly daunting.


[ QUOTE ]
but I am considering it for a future book.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think there's definitely a market for such a book, so I hope you'll do it. As long as I'm compiling a wish list, I'd also love to see you take a crack at a small stakes Omaha/8 book.


[ QUOTE ]
But it would require a brand new book, not a 3rd edition of WLLH.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, there's no reason the 3rd edition of WLLH couldn't be a brand new book.

-- M. Ruff

[TimM]

[ QUOTE ]
also - when it says it's not a 'beginners' book i take that to mean that the reader already knows how to play hold-em.

[/ QUOTE ]

No I wouldn't recommend this book yet for someone who doesn't already know how to play tight. They should also have some hand reading skills so they have some idea of when outs are no good, etc. A big part of the book is about when NOT to fold, so if the reader doesn't already know when TO fold, that could be a problem.

[parachute]

Hey, is that the Matt Ruff? If so, I really enjoy your work. (And hey, it's the Books and Software forum, so it's not even off-topic.)

[Matt Ruff]

[ QUOTE ]
Hey, is that the Matt Ruff? If so, I really enjoy your work. (And hey, it's the Books and Software forum, so it's not even off-topic.)

[/ QUOTE ]

Yep, it's me. I got bitten by the poker bug during a trip to Vegas last year. I tell myself it'll work its way into a novel eventually, so it's really just research...

-- M. Ruff

[Phat Mack]

I just read the synopsis to The Public Works Trilogy on amazon. You'll fit in very well here.