67s in MP3; short-stacked. Comments?

[MN_Mime]

10-handed 2/4 B&M. Hero is MP3 and getting short-stacked.

Reads:

BB (TAG) - TAG, but occasional holes. On a previous hand in SB, he completed against 5 players with T2o, flop came down T85r, 5 on the turn and J on the river and he chased it to the end despite aggressive bidding on my part (which he won, so either he's a genius, had a good read on me, or is a moron at times).

UTG (CHAMP) - New player ~2 orbits, but apparently home-game CHAMP; complete with overacting and cheap theatrics. Unopposed, he'll just run over the table, but slows down when confronted. Friends with RAW.

UTG + 1 (RAW) - been with us an hour and can't comprehend the betting structure. Bets out middle pair against suited connected flops and family pots. He's down nearly a rack. New behavior - defers to CHAMP (folds against CHAMP's raises, whereas he played nearly every hand before CHAMP sat down).

MP2 (FISH) - Weak and passive. Example - hung on to his pocket 5s against 3 two-tone overcards on the flop, runner-runner to a four-flush where he spiked his set on the river and then had the audacity to raise against 2-3 bettors (obviously losing to the flush but he was stewing about it!).

CO (WAG) - weak and aggressive. Plays pretty much any two cards and stabs at any opportunity where nobody has bet before him. Calls most hands when opposed. Unbelievably lucky at spiking hands for the 2+ hours I played with him. TAG has taken to re-raising any PFR's by WAG in order to isolate him. WAG has been straddling my blinds and raising any hand that RAW is playing, so I've been caught in the middle until CHAMP showed up and curtailed RAW's play.

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Hero has 6h7h.
3 limps to me. Hero calls. WAG raises, TAG re-raises, 3 calls(?). Hero calls.

FLOP: 8h,5c, 2h
check, CHAMP bets, 2 folds, Hero raises(!?), 2 folds, call.

After the session, I was convinced this was my worst mistake of the afternoon and figured a trial by my betters on 2+2 would confirm this.

My feeling was that I was getting squeezed and only had a few more orbits before the aggressive betting (find another table?) was going to put me all-in on a hand where I had a superior hand and was outdrawn (this actually did happen later heads-up with AKo in BB vs 45o UTG by WAG and he flopped a 5 and turned a 5 to knock me out - what can you do?).

I wanted to slow up CHAMP and possibly win outright, but didn't want to pay handsomely to chase my draws. If I called, I felt that WAG would attack and TAG would come over the top to isolate HIM. If I let them play, I was going all-in by the turn. No question.

Turn JD (2 players)
check, check

River 4D
CHAMP bets, Hero Raises. CHAMP folds without a showdown.

CHAMP claimed to have an overpair (ha!) and asked what I had to which I responded I'd tell him for $4 [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

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Clearly, I didn't extract as much as I could have and certainly could have seen more hands in this session had I called and hit, but at the time I felt a short-term gain was a better play.

Any thoughts? Thanks in advance!

[lil']

Do you play no limit? You talk like someone who plays it a lot.

The size of your stack is not important, it's what you're doing with the chips that are in it. On this flop, your goal is to create a big frickin' pot that you can win if you hit one of your draws. Raising the flop may knock people out here, I'd rather call and string people along.

If I called, I felt that WAG would attack and TAG would come over the top to isolate HIM.
That would be awesome if chips were flying on this flop. It's a great one for your hand.

And don't worry about "paying" to see your draws here. You have a good deal of equity in this pot.

[Chris Daddy Cool]

Raising the flop is absoultely the correct play here. You have an open ended straight flush draw. YOU are the favorite.

Also, I would never get into a position of being short stacked in a limit game. Have your money ready when you go out!

[MN_Mime]

[ QUOTE ]
Do you play no limit? You talk like someone who plays it a lot.

[/ QUOTE ]

I play No-Limit free-rolls online (pretty consistently in the upper 3rd) and typically Limit 3/6 in B&M on a budget (where I'm pretty much break-even).

The size of my stack *does* matter, because if/when I bust out, I'm done. I don't bankroll another rack, I do not pass Go... I go over my play, I reconsider my reads, and I look for these kinds of betting mistakes.

This was probably more of a tournament move, than a cash-game one. I knew it when I did it, but I did it anyway <frowns>...

[lil']

Raising the flop is absoultely the correct play here. You have an open ended straight flush draw. YOU are the favorite.
So why chase people out?

Now, if he thinks everyone will all call two cold, then raising is better.

[lil']

The size of my stack *does* matter, because if/when I bust out, I'm done.
Well, it matters as far as when you are done playing [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img], but I don't think it changes how you maximize your profit on this hand.

[adanthar]

[ QUOTE ]
10-handed 2/4 B&M. Hero is MP3 and getting short-stacked.

[/ QUOTE ]

Rule #1 of limit: never, ever, ever allow yourself to get shortstacked.

You can quit at an arbitrary point such as being down a rack, but you have to have another rack in front of you. Any other play is so -EV that a particularly bad outcome (such as getting aces with 3 BB in front of you) cancels out any positive expectation you have in the game.

[Chris Daddy Cool]

whoops sorry dude, thought it was already heads up by then.

[MN_Mime]

[ QUOTE ]
Now, if he thinks everyone will all call two cold, then raising is better.

[/ QUOTE ]

It was the end of a pretty brutal suck-out-my-soul session; bad-beat after bad-beat. You know... the kind that makes you think you're not as good at this game as you think [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Anyway, I was just trying to make a hand as cheaply as I could and obviously my read was right... I raised and the other 2 players went away. I should have called to let the others play back at me, gotten all my money in, AND BEEN HAPPY ABOUT IT! Nothing sacred about only going all-in on premium hands...

Thanks for the gut-check!