calling down with KK heads up

[j.k.]

I think you played it perfectly. I am mystified why other posters are recommending raising the flop. Why would you want to give QQ-1010 a reason to fold? Not to mention this is the party 15 game....I think MarkD could probably add 99 and 88 to his list of holdings in his post - all the more reason not to raise. The only variation I might consider would be to raise the river. 88-QQ won't fold for another bet to see a showdown after investing so much (given player description) and likewise it would be hard for AK/AQ to 3 bet the river. Not something I would do all the time, but under the right circumstances and against the right opponent.

j.k.

[Nightwish]

This is the best response so far. Raising the flop makes no sense to me because worse hands will usually fold and better hands will usually 3-bet. The problem is that some aggressive opponents might also 3-bet with a worse hand! On the flop, our hero has second pair with a backdoor nut flush draw, a call seems like the right thing here, especially at the Party 15/30 game.

[Cheap Shot]

Results? I still think you should be the agressor here - you are either way behind or way ahead, And in those situations if I can raise the flop and find out which one I am for a SB I will.

[genkin]

has anyone even considered raising the turn for free showdown purposes.

I would. i would also probably fold to a 3 bet at this point since it would mean that i am at best drawing to 2

outs. Consider the hands your opponent can 3 bet you with.
By calling a flop and raising the river you are representing a very strong hand. AK would probably just call at this point.
pairs like QQ-1010 cannot call this raise. if they do and catch the river your opponent will most likely go for checkraise giving you free showdown.

[j.k.]

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AK would probably just call at this point

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...pairs like QQ-1010 cannot call this raise

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So why do you want to raise again?

[steveyz]

My opponent had AK and took it down.

I think against a less aggressive opponent, raising the flop for a cheaper showdown is viable. Against more aggressive opponents I still prefer just calling down. Thanks for all the responses.

[genkin]

here are some points

1. is to know where you stand. You can safely fold to a 3 bet here.

.
2. Make it incorrect for weaker hands to call
remember you make money on other peoples mistakes.

3. there is also a small abeit very small chance that weak ace would fold.

4. You are very unlikely to be bet into on the turn
so you are not costing yourself extra money if you are behind.

5. even if someone hits his river ... lets say the opponent actually has 1010 he would probably check to you attempting to checkraise.

6. not many people will bet into you on the river even if they call your turn raise.

You are getting to the showdown for the same price in the most cases at the same time charging more draws

[j.k.]

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1. is to know where you stand. You can safely fold to a 3 bet here

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Or you can see a showdown for the same price. The raise has no value in it. Disregarding previous bets for simplicitys sake, you raise the turn and QQ and lower fold -you win one bet. Other side is you raise and AK/etc calls you lose two bets.

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2. Make it incorrect for weaker hands to call
remember you make money on other peoples mistakes.

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QQ and lower are already making a mistake betting into KK. Let them make another mistake by doing it again on the river since they are more than likely not calling the raise.

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3. there is also a small abeit very small chance that weak ace would fold.

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A weak Ace wouldn't 3 bet out of the blinds either unless he was super LAG which was not this players description by the poster.

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4. You are very unlikely to be bet into on the turn so you are not costing yourself extra money if you are behind.

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I thought we were talking about the raise on the turn so I am assuming you meant river (please correct if I am wrong). Yes, by raising the turn and checking the river you get the showdown for the same price. But since only hands that beat you are calling the turn then the only times you have a showdown are when you lose.

As for charging draws, the only draws SB is likely to have are two outers that are already making huge mistakes by betting. There is no need to raise the turn and encourage QQ/etc to make the correct decision.

j.k.

[nepenthe]

Nonononono.

You played it fine. There are enough maniacs at Party who will 3-bet and cap with crappy hands and play 55 as if it's AA that calling down is not bad. This is a classic win the most, lose the least scenario.