AK against multiple opponents

ECondreras · #1 07-23-2004, 01:47 PM

This is a very general question that would be better answered with more specifics (i.e.# of opponents left, what level in the tournament, stack sizes, etc.). But generally speaking, AK against multiple opponents doesn't do as well as against a single opponent. Also, early in a tournament, I rarely, if ever, CALL an all-in with AK.

DonT77 · #2 07-23-2004, 03:59 PM

EC, this may be just my opinion, but I think you are missing a lot of +EV if you are folding AK to all-ins early in tourneys if you play in the <$50 buy-in on-line MTTs.

Here's my reasoning, based mostly on observation / empirical evidence - with AK you will be dominating other Ax hands about half the time and you'll be almost a coin flip against 22-QQ about the other half of the time. You're a big dog vs AA or KK, but the chances of those holdings is diminished by your holding AK. I'd say AK all-in is a winner on PS / PP MTTs more than 60% of the time. Plus, I would rather take the chance on busting out / doubling up early in an MTT for 3 reasons - if I double up early that will enhance my ability to run over the weaker players, if I bust out of the money - I'd rather do it early, and in the early rounds you see a lot more loose all-in plays by the crazies.

Anybody else concur, disagree?

Vuron00 · #3 07-23-2004, 04:13 PM

OK Don... nothing personal here.

I only found this site a week ago, but 1 thing really amazes me. About 95% of the posters on here claim to be tight players, but almost every answer to any question contains the words "push" or "all-in".

I, completely, disagree with your reasoning to call in this situation where you say you "would rather take the chance on bustin out/doubling up early". There is no reason to take a "chance" at all. If you simply fold here, you still have an average chip stack and if you believe in your ability to play and win pots, there is no reason to bust out early on a coin flip. If you plan on cashing a check, how many coin flips would you have to win? Remember, you only have to lose 1 to put an end to your run.

Save your chips and use them for when you have a made hand.

DonT77 · #4 07-23-2004, 05:41 PM

I appreciate your opinion, but in order to get to the final table you have to multiply your chips at some point - so if you are dominating half of your opponents holdings and coin-flipping the otherhalf, then I think this is a good opportunity to double-up. Unless you want to play ultra-tight and wait for AA or KK to bust somebody out, but then you'll more often blind out or get short stacked and have to go all-in with cards less than AK. This is gambling, so why not push your chips in when you figure to have the best of it?

Jsb · #5 07-25-2004, 10:50 PM

i'm not sure what i do in this situation, but i lean towards fold, because it seems to me theres a very good chance at least one is holding a pocket pair. if i somehow can be certain this is not the case, then i call. if one of them have a pocket pair, those who don't hold any pocket pairs are usually holding some of my outs. if noone holds a PP then that is awesome, but devastating otherwise of course.
Don, i was more curious as to why you bring MTT strategy into this. i think this is a very different situation in a MTT than in a SNG. i am not all that familiar with MTTs, but i would assume you are correct that you want to double up early in a tourney, but doubling up early isn't nearly as important in a SNG. the early stages in a SNG is not a good place at all to be taking a coinflip or anything like that, being shortstacked on the bubble is anything but a death sentence. are you saying that the strategey for MTTs and SNG early stages are the same, or is this a mixup? i could be wrong in how i'm looking at this, that is why i ask

ECondreras · #6 07-23-2004, 07:19 PM

Hey Don,

I play the PP $10+1 single table SnG's. The reason I don't call all-in's early on with AK is all based or risk and reward. The reward of doubling up in that spot is not worth the risk of busting out early. I can still make it to the money against these terrible players without doubling up early. Am I a great player? No. Is the competition pretty pathetic? Yes.

-Ed-