Help - No lack of skill, but lack of willpower

[nef]

If you are a winning player, the longer you play, the more you should win. The "quit when you are ahead" thing is a fallacy.

[steamboatin]

The guy who started this thread is not a winning player. He starts out good, gets ahead and then loses his shirt by the end of the session.

He needs to develop some discipline.

[pc in NM]

[ QUOTE ]
The guy who started this thread is not a winning player. He starts out good, gets ahead and then loses his shirt by the end of the session.

He needs to develop some discipline.

[/ QUOTE ]

It seems that both he, and we, can see the destructive pattern here - he plays to the bitter end, and ends losing his cash. While his account sounds objective, there's a likelihood he isn't telling everything - he probably isn't even "seeing" everything. He explains his inevitable change of fortunes as a function of time. But, almost certainly, its a function of his own change of play....

But the focus of all the remedies is on "discipline". Even he "knows" that, but just can't seem to pull it off....

IMHO, this bears all the hallmarks of an addiction. Gambling is the behavior; the pattern is familiar, even anticipated, yet inevitably results in "unacceptable" consequences. Repeated attempts to "control" the behavior, even while it is happening, are unsuccessful....

It's already time to make that call to Gambler's Anonmyous or to see a therapist. The road will only lead to deeper "bottoms", and there's no "need" to get there to make the choice....

Good luck, friend!

[Transference]

You shouldnt walk away because you are winning or losing. You should walk away if you are losing or are about to due to a factor you cannot currently control.

If you are tired, walk.
If your attenntion is drifting, walk.
If you become convinced you can read other players "perfectly" walk (you can't).
If you are tilting because of a bad beat, you guessed it!

If you can only having a winning night by leaving as soon as you get ahead, improve your game or quit.

And finally, if you are keeping records of how much you would have won if you quit when you had your biggest stack...

I really do not understand what your are attributing your losses to. Are you tired? Do you play too loose when you are ahead? Do you expect that you are due to a string of bad luck or something?? Are you not even trying to figure out why you are losing????

[playerfl]

I set a 30 BB loss limit a while back, and this concept is backed up by many pro's as bankroll protection against unwittingly being the sucker of the table.

After a losing session last night and a few others I recall, I am now going to set a hard time limit as well. My play definitely gets worse as time passes. Also there is the issue of not interfering with the rest of my life.

If I lose 30 BB, OR, if the time has exceeded X hours, then I quit playing.

Any suggestions on optimal time limit ? I'm thinking about two hours at this point.

[Mark H]

2 thoughts is drinking involved with your down swings or disipline. Are you becoming the fish. Do the super fish bust out leaving you with better players. Mark

[Cpt Spaulding]

take your girlfriend or wife with you...The power of nagging goes a long way....

[playerfl]

I agree with this. I seldom get more than 2 hours at the table when my girlfriend is with me.

[kismet]

Thanks for all the replies so far, they are things I already knew in the back of my mind but it helps to see them in print. The one I find most interesting is the "just a gambling problem", as I think it might partially correct. As a math/physics major I would never do something dumb like sink money into roulette, craps, slots, etc. However, I know I am supposed to be able to beat poker and understand why. My problem is that I don't stop when I become a negligable favorite or a slight underdog. At that point poker is no better then blackjack.

I've looked back at my records to see if I could find any trends. Out game tends to go NL near the end of the night when the bar is about to close. A little more then half the time when the game has went NL I have went home broke, and the other half I win a LOT. I do play NL all the time on the internet and love it more then structured. The problem is people who come play our NL game usually lay down two to three times what my stack has grown into. This summer my bankroll has been a bit slim for their NL game so I think I've been playing too timid with my "scared money". I just have this competitive drive to outthink and outplay them. After all, I have sunk thousands of dollars into things like bowling, golf, magic, pool, tae-kwan-do, and similar hobbies trying to be the best so I could crush anyone I knew. So back to gambling problem.. is it a gambling problem when it is the competitive nature that drives you?

All that being said I took some advice to heart for my bankroll's sake. I've never bought in more then once per night. Now I'm going to start cashing out when the game is about to go NL or my stack takes a big hit (%20) from it's peak. I've done that the last two nights and it feels great later being a winner on the night even if it is hard to not play NL with my friends. I think this will help me with +EV in the hours I do play untill I learn some self control. Perhaps when my bankroll is healthy again I'll pick one night a week to play the NL game with my winnings for the evening.