10-20 Foxwoods Game -- TRAPPED ... or am I?

[BarronVangorToth]

Good game -- not a lot of pre-flop raising and we're getting 5 or so per flop.

UTG opens for $10 -- this could be any pair or any two face cards

UTG+1 calls -- this means a decent pair, suited conntectors, or two face cards

I'm 1 off the button and see K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] and I haven't taken a flop for about a half hour, so I'm in.

Button calls -- boooooo.

Small blind throws in $5.

Big Blind raps the table.

Pot: $60

K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

Top pair, third kicker, and a backdoor flush draw. Looking okay, even though there are five opponents.

Four checks to me -- gimme! I bet $10

Button: raises to $20

EVERYONE calls the $20 -- uh oh; this can't be good.

I throw in another $10

Pot: $180

Turn: 5 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

Now I picked up the flush draw. It's checked around to me. I check. Button bets $20. All four guys call again. What the hell is this?!?!?!?

I throw in my $20 like a good calling station, wondering how I got into this mess, and how I'm getting out of this. C'mon diamond!

Pot: $300

River: A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

GAH! Checked around to me -- could FOUR people be on random draws? -- what were the draws? -- lower pairs hoping to catch a dirty second pair -- what's going on?

I check.

Button bets.

EVERYONE folds this time.

I was prepared to fold if one of them called by they all folded.

There's $320 out there and even though I think there's a decent chance I'm beat (I don't think he had AK as he would've raised pre-flop, so I'm guessing KQ...?) I think it's the right call to make, considering the pot.

He flips over K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 10 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

GIMME.

The four guys were all grumbling after I took it down pretending like they had both of us beat, blah blah blah, but I'm guessing they were all on draws or whatever.

I just can't figure out how it went down like this.

Thought it was worth a post-up, though, seeing as I haven't put up a hand in a while.

Enjoy!


Barron Vangor Toth
www.BarronVangorToth.com
"Making Bad River Calls One Bet at a Time"

[amerksmann22]

Does any think it would be a good play to raise four limps with KJs in the CO to buy the button and get the lead...
I am just curious...I might consider that play preflop.

Although in this hand it worked out.

[Showtime]

What about throwing a preflop raise? Odds are you get the button, drop one or both of the blinds, and are able to find out where you stand pretty quickly if the UTG and UTG+1 stick and you hit them hard post-flop.

But, the results wouldn't be nearly so nice as what you got ... having a bunch of draws and 2nd bests hanging on to you.

[Grvnhigh]

Seems pretty routine to me. Put yourself in the button's shoes though- he has top pair with a medium kicker on the button. All of his actions (including the river bet) are routine as well. In his eyes, you could easily be betting a hand that he beats on the flop, and it gives him the opportunity to shut out gutshots and hands like Ad2s, etc.

Had you not picked up the flush draw on the turn, you might want to consider betting there for information, not necessarily to prevent a free card. (provided your opponent isn't too aggressive)

BTW, how are the 5-10 and 10-20 games at FW? I will be going there for the first time next thurs-fri.

[Barry]

Raise this hand preflop after a couple of limpers. Its way better than what they have, and you will likely get the button.

Even after the button raises the flop, you probably still have the best hand, so you have a couple of options, (and check calling the turn and river isn't 1 of them) you can 3-bet the flop, because "3 betting is fun" (TM, Clarkmeister) or, if you're pretty sure that the button will bet the turn, you are presented with the delightful opportunity to checkraise the field on the turn if no [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] falls.

On the turn you pick up your redraw, which makes the checkraise even more profitable, in the unlikely case that the button does have KQ or you're now freerolling against KJo. Remember this is the FW's 10/20, some of these guys think that KTo is worth playing from anywhere for any number of bets.

OK, the river sucks, but had you played it more aggressively you had a better chance to get out the dusty A. I suppose that it's possible for 1 of them to have Ax [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], but you also stand to be paid off in multiple spots if you bet the river. I would lean towards betting the river here, but not sure that I would have been able to do it at the table.

[onegymrat]

Bet the turn.

[lil']

I really thought you were going to check-raise the turn. That would have been good.

[Joe Tall]

You could have won such a bigger pot.

Must raise preflop.

The only reason why I would call a flop raise here is that I would be check-raising the turn. Once you pick up that diamond draw, you are in a must-check raise on the turn if you're sure the button will bet.

You should consider posting a hand like this in the Small Stakes forum.

Peace,
Joe Tall

[daryn]

first thing, this hand definitely warrants a preflop raise. i don't understand how you can "boooooo" the button caller when you didn't even raise!

i'd also consider check-raising the turn, if i didn't 3-bet the flop that is!

good river call i guess.

[morgant]

i preflop raise, as has been mentioned. i would not miss check raising the turn, especially since you are closing the action and might(most assuredely) get the players between you and the button calling. what limping hands are you concerned about? the button will raise kq(almost certainly in that game), aq(definately), maybe a set, but you dont know as you are check calling him. a flop 3-bet could be a good idea to charge draws, but they aren't going anywhere in this game.
for a little further analysis, your statement on the river of if one player calls between me and the button i am folding????? but if it is just the button i am calling??? so a player in between may have hit the ace, only ace he could/should have would be a/rag hearts, i am not very good with probabilities but the chances of him having that exact holding vs. a call of one more bet aren't even close, you have to call the river. and what did you put the button on the whole time??? take charge of this hand.