My first 15/30 Post

mmanne · #1 07-14-2004, 09:45 AM

I'm just moving up to 15/30, and this might be a little basic for the mid forum. I hadn't been at the table long, so I don't know much about any of the opponents. The table had been playing pretty loose and varying between aggressive and passive. The real question here is the turn check-raise, but feel free to comment on any of it .

Party Poker 15/30 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. CO posts a blind of $15.
1 fold, Hero raises, 2 folds, MP3 3-bets, 1 fold, Button calls, 1 fold, BB calls, Hero caps, MP3 calls, Button calls, BB calls.

Flop: (17.66 SB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, MP3 calls, Button calls, BB calls.

Turn: (10.83 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB checks, Hero checks, MP3 bets, Button calls, BB calls, Hero raises, MP3 folds, Button calls, BB calls.

 I used the check-raise because I felt that MP3 would bet. Then, there were two players that would be trapped for 2 bets (it was a passive enough table that I thought they would call 1, but not cold-call in case MP3 thought this was the spot to raise me). There's no way a flush draw is leaving, so I just needed to charge any of them the most. 

River: (17.83 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, Button calls, BB folds.

Final Pot: 19.83 BB
Main Pot: 19.83 BB, between Button and Hero.

ike · #2 07-14-2004, 09:54 AM

Very nicely played. I have a hard time deciding what the button had, theres almost literally no hand that I like his line. I guess he had 77-JJ? Maybe AT clubs.

hockey1 · #3 07-14-2004, 10:00 AM

Looks good to me.

mmanne · #4 07-14-2004, 10:06 AM

I couldn't figure the button out either. During the turn play and before, I had him as the club man, but I couldn't see the call on the river. I'd go with 77-TT, but there's an outside chance he was on a 3

matt

Turning Stone Pro · #5 07-14-2004, 10:11 AM

Welcome to 15-30 and the forum.

I'm not a huge fan of the turn check in this situation.

I rather bet the turn and hope that MP3 decides this is the time to pop it with JJ-KK (hopefully not 10-10!). I think you take a real chance that with the button and MP3 having big suited cards or connectors you will give a free card on the turn to the BB who could have literally anything, including straight and flush draws.

Your goal with a big pot like this is to win it --- I think betting the turn and hoping to get raised by the MP3 or the button, forcing the BB out, is the way to go. You can then 3 bet the turn against the MP3 and/or the button and figure to be in the lead.

Just my $0.02.

best wishes,

TSP

Philuva · #6 07-14-2004, 10:30 AM

I like it only if you know MP-3 is aggressive and will bet if checked to on the turn. It is hard to put him on an overpair since he didn't raise the flop and if he has AK or AQ, there is no gurantee he is betting on the turn.

But this is Party where everyone puts you on AK, so you did a good job of acting like you had AK on the turn.

Most of the time, I only go for the turn CR in this spot aginst 3 opponents if MP-3 raised me on the flop, I would call his flop raise and then CR the turn.

Philuva · #7 07-14-2004, 10:39 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I rather bet the turn and hope that MP3 decides this is the time to pop it with JJ-KK (hopefully not 10-10!). I think you take a real chance that with the button and MP3 having big suited cards or connectors you will give a free card on the turn to the BB who could have literally anything, including straight and flush draws.

Your goal with a big pot like this is to win it --- I think betting the turn and hoping to get raised by the MP3 or the button, forcing the BB out, is the way to go. You can then 3 bet the turn against the MP3 and/or the button and figure to be in the lead.

[/ QUOTE ]

The pot is so big, any flush draw or even a pair is getting the right odds to call. And any non-pair hand is drawing dead. I would be completely surprised to see any straight draws out there given the pre-flop action. So giving a free card is not really the end of the world. The goal in this situation is to get the most money in the pot. If MP-3 is more than 50% likely to bet the turn, then I like the turn CR, if not, he should bet.

nopepper · #8 07-14-2004, 11:29 AM

I feel that on a flop like that you shouldnt give a free card a bet on the turn is best here

Philuva · #9 07-14-2004, 12:48 PM

A free card only hurts you when someone who would have folded is now able to catch a card to win the hand.

In this situation on the turn, I don't think any such card exists.

I am not saying he shouldn't bet the turn, but the reasons for betting or check-raising is to get more money in the pot not to protect his hand. Anyone who is drawing live on the turn is getting the right odds to call the turn either way, so a free card on the turn is not disastrous.

MaxPower · #10 07-14-2004, 02:53 PM

Giving a free card to a draw is mistake that costs you money even though it is correct for your opponent to call.

Of course, check raising is better if it will work.