a hand last night

[andyfox]

I wouldn't necessarily do so with the flop bettor on my immediate right. Lots of guys wait until the turn to pop it in this situation.

[andyfox]

What do you put Gabe's opponent on?

[hillbilly]

i get the feeling gabe wishes he had gone for a checkraise on the turn instead of the good player raising all his customers out of the pot. that said his hand has shrunk here somewhat and i would just call it down headsup here myself

[J.A.Sucker]

I agree with everything you say, which is a pattern these days, BTW [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img], but I'd reraise it anyway. He won't get reraised for the same reason as you say Gabe shouldn't reraise himself by 55, so this is fine. 88 will reraise him, and the straight will, too, but I don't think we can back off yet, especially in LA, but it's awfully close. The most deciding factor is how his opponent views him. Gabe said that he was tough, but how does he view Gabe? Several players view me as weak and tight, while others view me as loose and aggressive around here, for various reasons (they've told me this), and how Gabe's being perceived has everything to do with this hand. If the opponent views Gabe as you and I do, then I agree that shutting down is best. However, if this guy doesn't then a reraise is a better option.

The idea of thinking about how your opponents view you is a new concept that I've been thinking a great deal about, thanks to some guy named Zee, and he's right, of course. The perception of you by your opponents can often not be what you think it is, and "this is enough to break you." The man is more correct than you know.

[Ulysses]

[ QUOTE ]
The idea of thinking about how your opponents view you is a new concept that I've been thinking a great deal about

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm surprised this is something you hadn't given this much thought previously. I think it's important in all games, but crucial to have a good awareness of this in No Limit and SH limit games, esp. higher ones.

[Ulysses]

[ QUOTE ]
My first reaction is the same as yours, but when the other guy has a bigger hand, the fun goes out of it real fast. Aren't his most likely hands are a made straight or a set of 8s or 5s?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, I thought about that stuff of couse. And I definitely agree Gabe will be behind a lot of times. But sometimes, this guy decided not to raise the flop w/ his QdJd for some reason. Or he had AQ and decided to protect his hand on the turn. Or he has Ad5d and thinks he can semi-bluff Gabe off something. There's some other stuff like that we could toss in here.

So, there are a number of hands Gabe can beat. And some of those hands will check behind on the river if Gabe calls.

How likely are those hands v. 88, 55, 67? I dunno. I just don't like the dynamic that develops when I just call here and then it goes check-check on the river and I flip over a set. So, knowing that I'm going to pay off a re-raise and river bet a fair portion of the time, I still raise.

[Philuva]

I think it is an easy 3-bet when there are now 2 flush draws out there that he could be semi-bluffing. You are only in realy trouble against 88 or 55. If he 4-bets, I am calling down.

[J.A.Sucker]

I gave it thought previously, but my new take on it is a little different, and hard to put into words. For NL, it's more simplistic, in a way (perhaps the one aspect of NL that is much more clear-cut for me than limit, IMO). It's more subtle in a limit game, as these interplays take weeks to iron out in a limit game, whereas they are more apparent in NL even within the course of an evening.

[DiceyPlay]

When it's the good players turn to act pf, there's already 4.5 small bets in the pot. With those implied odds, will he limp with as little as 76o? If I look left and don't believe there's a raise coming, I would. But that also means he'll limp with a lot of other hands too and there's only 12 ways to get 76. He could have QTs or Q9s (even Q8s if he's feeling giddy or see's it as an opportunity to throw in variation - it's not that bad with the implied odds, is it?). He knows you limped after UTG. What does that mean to him? KJ ... JT maybe or a pair less than 9's? He doesn't raise the flop though. He knows that if there's a flush draw behind him, they'll likely raise, the fact that there isn't a raise on the flop probably means there's no flush draw. At that point he likes his Q weak kicker or loves his Q8 and pops you. I think I'm going to have to re-raise the turn with the intention of check calling the river if unimproved.

[Michael Davis]

If Gabe raises and gets reraised, can he check-fold a non-paired river?

-Michael