KQo on the button three-handed

Flushed · #1 07-12-2004, 04:03 PM

Hey guys,

I played in a live free-roll with re-buys and add-ons last week. I'm not an experienced tournament player and I encountered this situation.

It's down to the last three players. The blinds are 200/400 with a 50 rolling ante. I have just over 3000 in chips, SB has just under that, and BB is outstacking us by about 1000. The structure is winner takes all for $1000, but we have already decided that the last two will split. We wanted to do a three-way split but BB refused.

I'm on the button with KQo. I raise 1200 and SB pushes, leaving me with 600-700 chips if I call and just under 2000 if I fold. BB folds. What do I do? Bear in mind that SB is a pretty good player but not great. He also caught me blatantly stealing with 63o earlier, and I am relatively tight most of the time and can fold, as is obvious to the other players.

- Flushed

fnurt · #2 07-12-2004, 04:07 PM

First of all, never, ever come to this forum with a KQ hand. Someone will always make a post like "if your opponent will call with any pair or any ace, you're always an underdog," which describes a player who doesn't come close to existing in reality, but you have to sit there and listen to the speech anyway.

Putting that aside, your error was not pushing all-in in the first place, forcing you to make this tough decision. You have only 7.5x the big blind, and there are antes as well, so a reasonable raise commits you to the pot. If you're going to play, you should just push from the beginning, and KQ 3-handed is definitely good enough to justify a push.

cferejohn · #3 07-12-2004, 04:59 PM

[ QUOTE ]
First of all, never, ever come to this forum with a KQ hand. Someone will always make a post like "if your opponent will call with any pair or any ace, you're always an underdog," which describes a player who doesn't come close to existing in reality, but you have to sit there and listen to the speech anyway.

[/ QUOTE ]

And also, even if your opponent will call with only *exactly* the hands that beat you (Ax, any pair), pushing is *still* +EV here because a) he won't have an ace or a pair the majority of the time and you will win the blinds often enough to make this easily worth it and b) against A2-AJ, and 22-JJ you are not much worse than a coinflip, so it's not like you're taking a big EV hit when you are called by a little ace or a little pair.

And as fnurt said, most opponents won't play exactly like this anyway. They could easily fold small pairs and small aces (both +EV for you), and they could easily call with KJ, and possibly even QJ or TJs (aside: it's amazing how many people play TJs like it is a preflop monster; I've seen 2 players isolating an all-in with it in the last week; they were both behind, and, of course, they both won).

Push preflop.

tripdad · #4 07-12-2004, 05:39 PM

the general rule is that if your raise represents roughly 40% of your stack or more, just push all-in. this situation easily fits this parameter. PUSH, baby! oh, and KQ is quite a monster 3-handed.

cheers!

Flushed · #5 07-13-2004, 01:32 PM

Thanks for all the replies. The consensus seems to be a push PF. I thought there might be some different strategy here only because the pay out is only to top two, and the third gets a nice handshake. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Hypothetically, if you made the mistake of just raising, do you call the all-in?

schwza · #6 07-13-2004, 02:09 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Hey guys,

I played in a live free-roll with re-buys and add-ons last week.

[/ QUOTE ]

... did no one else find this weird? i would imagine you'd have at least 5 players all-in before the flop every hand during the rebuy period.

that is a good question about pushing in a satelite (which this essentially is after the deal) relative to a normal tournament. if you're always going to push when you have x or fewer BB's in a regular tournament, and y or fewer in a satelite, x has to be smaller than y, right?

Flushed · #7 07-13-2004, 02:24 PM

The re-buys were allowed during the first hour, and add-ons were a one time deal also at the end of the first hour. And yes, it was wild, crazy, and loose.

soxfan70 · #8 07-13-2004, 02:38 PM

My original thought here was this is an easy fold, but as I look at your chip size and blind sizes a second time, I'm not so sure. if you fold you've got under 5XBB left, and it's going to cost you at least $650 every three hands, leaving you at best 9 hands to find something else to take a stand with. I think i call and hope for the best.

gergery · #9 07-13-2004, 02:41 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks for all the replies. The consensus seems to be a push PF. I thought there might be some different strategy here only because the pay out is only to top two, and the third gets a nice handshake. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Hypothetically, if you made the mistake of just raising, do you call the all-in?

[/ QUOTE ]

If I do the math correctly, it sounds like you have to call ~1000 to win around 3000.
If so, then this is an easy call, as you are EV neutral or better vs. anything but AA, KK.

Worse case you’re up against AK/AQ getting neutral odds to call. You could very well be up against AJ/AT for only a slight dog (3:2), and could certainly be calling down JJ-77 for even money.

cferejohn · #10 07-13-2004, 03:13 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Hey guys,

I played in a live free-roll with re-buys and add-ons last week.

[/ QUOTE ]

... did no one else find this weird? i would imagine you'd have at least 5 players all-in before the flop every hand during the rebuy period.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think/assume that this means that the buy-in is free, but the rebuys/add-ons cost money, but the house adds a significant amount to the prize pool. I've seen this at a number of places as the format for their "tournament points leaders freeroll" that is held once or twice a year.