what to do with top two?

[cero_z]

Hi JV,
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he could have some random crap lik AQ, pocket pairs...etc.

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This is where opinions diverge most in this thread, I think. I agree that he would play a pocket pair JJ and down this way, with obvious weight leant to the lower pairs. But if he has AQ, my notion of a prop is way off. I think of someone who plays conservatively, and halfway decent or better (usually not much better). AQ in this spot is really for 19-year olds who've just learned what hands to play, and who now play them indiscriminately. As for the "...etc" portion of your quote, there really isn't anything else for him to be in there with. He's facing a "limprotected" pre-flop raiser, and called a bet on a K-8-8 flop with no draws. He has 2 pair or better here for sure, and he will probably play them well (dump them) if Dave follows up on the turn. A free card is not at all dangerous if Dave's ahead, so checking and then making sure a bet goes in on the river is the best line, IMO.

[Gabe]

Hi JV,

Would you have bet the flop?

Gabe

[J_V]

I would definitely check this hand on the flop more than most. How did you know [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]? I'm not sure how often, but maybe up to 50% of the time. Obviously, you are trying to get bluffed at later in the hand w/out taking too much free card risk and getting hands like 55 to make BIG mistakes.

However, if I had AQ I would bet 100% of the time [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]. With a player base as large as the one I play in, I feel like working both sides of the coin like this works very well as people rarely catch on.

Part of the reason this flop check is a classy play is that your kicker is not supreme. If I had KQ, I'd be more likely to bet, and try to bend over KJ and K10.

[J_V]

I didn't realize he was a prop.

Okay fine, let's just say he has either a K or and 8 and you don't know which. Betting is still the better play if you can play well on the turn and river. If you are gonna blow the turn decision when raised, then checking might be the best option. The weaker the player, the more likely I am to bet, as the less likely I am to screw up the turn decision.

For example, If he is going to call the turn w/ a K and raise and 8 and you are giving up a little under 1 sb in equity by not betting the turn.


A lot of times these check behind plays are cop outs, because so we don't have to make real decisions later on in the hand. I know that I do it for that reason, WAY too much.

[Gabe]

Assuming I’m never going to play with these guys again:

If it was head up, I would check.

If it was three way and not raised before the flop, I would probably check.

If the middle guy was real weak or passive, I would check.

The problem with checking in the 3-way pot, is sometimes the first guy will take a stab on the turn, and get raised by the middle guy, who just spiked a smaller pair or something. As far as drawing out vs. paying off, the third helps more than hurts, though. Since the middle player is a prop, who hasn’t been at the table long, I think checking the flop has merit.

[ike]

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With a player base as large as the one I play in, I feel like working both sides of the coin like this works very well as people rarely catch on.

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Be careful about this, people may notice more than you think. I have some players noted with things like "HU only bets if he doesn't have it." These players get killed trying to steal my blinds.

[J_V]

No joke. But here's a good one: 2 men walked into a bar, the third one ducked.

[Gabe]

A blond, a priest, and a rabbi walked into a bar. The bartender said “what is this, a joke?”