Trouble with KQo

[John Deere]

Hi everyone,

I have been playing Party 2/4 for a few months now, and I finally started using PokerTracker (as in, I bought it) in an attempt to improve my game and find my leaks. Well, I think I found one already--KQo.

I only have 2500 hands in the database so far, so maybe that's not enough to make a judgement, but KQo has been at the top of my money-losers list since Day 1. I have been dealt it 27 times, winning 14.81%, for a total loss of $102.75 (-$3.81/hand). I'm raising with it pre-flop almost 63%.

PT says I open-raised only 33%, which actually is quite shocking to me, as I thought it would be much higher. Perhaps it's a fluke, and I've only been in a position to open the pot with it 3 times, and for whatever reason, only open-raised once. I went to showdown almost 40% of the time, but am only winning at showdown 1/3 of the time.

My first thought it just that I am totally over-playing this hand. Raising with it too much when its value is low (i.e., when there are already a lot of limpers on the pot) and when I am out of position. When should I be open-raising with this? Should I ever open-limp with it? Do you ever fold this pre-flop even without a raise in front of you? On the CO or Button, will you raise with limpers in front?

Similar hands, like AQo and KQs, are all very profitable for me. Do you think that this is just a fluke that will be ironed out in the next 50,000 hands, or do you think I have a problem? Sorry for the small sample size... but if there is a problem, I'd like to fix it before 10k hands. =)

[Ron]

Hi, to small of sample. My first record 2500 hands had AA MONEY LOOSER. [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] and also small set's [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] I think it was because I was pushing to hard against the scarey board [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Like 4 flushs and raise and reraises. [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

[gamblore99]

Hi john. im new here too, but from what ive been getting, KQo is a pretty weak hand. I would fold that everytime to a raise unless it looks like the raiser is trying to steal the pot. In a passive game u have to respect raises more, and this hand is very easily dominated. dont enter a raised pot with it. I think if its a real passive game u can limp with it, but i would not raise that.

[Sadat X]

Considering you need about 10,000 hands to make your overall stats significant, 2500 is way too small a sample to make any conclusions about specific hands. Keep playing and keep us updated when you get a few more hands under your belt [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[Vern]

Too small a sample but I will mention that I have 41K hands between .5/1 to 3/6 and have seen KQo 378 times for +.17BB/Hand. I recently plugged a leak with the help of PT with KQ playing it too aggressively up front and calling a single pre-flop raiser in late position. I now limp from UTG to MP1, from MP2-BTN I will raise un raised pot and fold to a raised pot. I will also fold in the SB to a raise but will call a raise from the BB. That Pre-flop strategy has really helped me stay out of dominated positions and improved my performance with KQo. For the first 128 hands I was overplaying them up front and calling raises from LP with them I was -.03BB/Hand. Since I changed strategies I am up for the remaining 250 hands at +.20BB/Hand and the last 100 have been at +.30BB/Hand. Since the change they are winning 27% of the time, VP$IP 77%, W$WSF 30% PFR 25% RFI 11.6% Your milage may vary and I still consider my hand history sample to be small [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[House-Lion]

Hi
Your sample is way to small. Just a few suckouts or lucky-big-pots will tilt your stats even at 10k hands.

I think you allready got some good general advice but to repeat them:

Never play KQo against a raise unless you are in the blinds and it's a steal-raise, OR you are in the BB. KQ(s) or KQo are often dominated compared to a raisers hand, yet I often see KQ paying off alot to pre-flop raisers.

Also at the 1/3-blind-structure you must be more restrictive with playing KQ against limper(s) and raiser. You almost will have to put in two full bets to call and will play out of position all hand.

I really hesitate playing KQ from the big-blind when it's 3-bets pre-flop, cause you really run a extraordinary high risk of ending with the pay-off hand.

I almost always open-raise with KQo but often let go on the flop or turn, specially if an ace flops, or you simply must bluff and represent an ace...

Against 4-5 or more limpers, I do not raise KQo.

Remember at party/empire 2/4 you will almost always be up against people that will play ALL aces, even if there is a raise infront of them. (that includes the A6o and A2o). Hence if an ace hits on the flop, your pair often wont be good. Specially if there has been cold-caller(s) after your raise.


Yet another thing, hitting the King on flop is much better since there is only one overcard, and even at 2/4 a lot of aces will actually fold to a flop bet or at least to a turn-bet if they do not have the small pair to go with their ace.

[Jdanz]

i'm sorry but i generally disagree with the lines given by other players. If i am not UTG or UTG +1 i am raising, if i am in either of those positions i'm rasing or folding depending on the table. Of course there are exceptions but at the party 2/4 level you are going to be way ahead most of the time, and the reason why your win % is so low is because you're lacking aggressiveness. Realize that if you hit your hand there are only two hands that can beat you without flopping 2 pair ofr better, aq and ak. These hands are simply not there most of the time, and you very often find out very quickly if they are.

In essence you raise because you're usually best, and you raise because you immediately make yourself MUCH more likely to win by doing so.

P.S. The best thing about party is people play so straight foward if no one has raised you can virtually always raise kq, but if its raised before it gets to you, you can fold without giving up too much.

P.P.S. That means don't coldcall raises with KQ, fold or reraise if you think you're ahead (with emphasis on fold)

-JDanz

[Michael Davis]

I would keep playing KQo aggressively preflop. If you are calling raises with it, though, you need to stop that nonsense.

-Michael

[Michael Davis]

"Never play KQo against a raise unless you are in the blinds and it's a steal-raise, OR you are in the BB. KQ(s) or KQo are often dominated compared to a raisers hand, yet I often see KQ paying off alot to pre-flop raisers."

Against a legitimate raise, you should fold KQo every time from the blinds.

"Against 4-5 or more limpers, I do not raise KQo."

This is highly debatable, but I do. If everyone is limping, I figure to punish those who are coming in on garbage. And KQ is a damn good hand if it is not dominated, which in this case it rates not to be.

"Yet another thing, hitting the King on flop is much better since there is only one overcard, and even at 2/4 a lot of aces will actually fold to a flop bet or at least to a turn-bet if they do not have the small pair to go with their ace."

I don't understand what you mean here. If a Q flops, only one overcard, the ace, hurts your hand. If you're trying to say something about how the opponents play when a K is on board versus a Q, I don't get it. I'd rather have opponents paying me off when I flop top pair good kicker.

-Michael