AA UTG - Too Weak?

[Ty Webb]

New poster but have been very impressed with the posts thus far. Keep em coming!

I feel like I should have either checkraised the flop or the turn but was afraid of QQ after his big preflop raise UTG. The issue is, I felt like I was ahead but have lost some big pots recently with AA and out of position I thought I'd just call along. Thoughts?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (9 handed) converter

CO ($$250.50)
Button ($$153.20)
SB ($$793.15)
BB ($$333.10)
Hero ($$597.75)
UTG+1 ($$310.80)
MP1 ($$765.20)
MP2 ($$349.75)
MP3 ($$358)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
Hero calls $4, UTG+1 folds, MP1 raises to $24, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, CO folds, Button folds, SB folds, BB folds, Hero calls $20.

Flop: ($54) 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
Hero bets $52, MP1 raises to $152, Hero calls $100.

Turn: ($358) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, MP1 bets $108, Hero calls $108.

River: ($574) J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, MP1 checks.

Final Pot: $574

Results in white below: <font color="white">
Hero shows Ac Ah (one pair, aces).
MP1 shows Ad Qd (one pair, queens).
Outcome: Hero wins $574. </font>

[NotAClue]

Confused by your post. You say "HIS big preflop raise UTG," but as far as I can see you, the HERO, are UTG, and the villain is MP1. At any rate, what you need to do to make this not such a headache is re-raise it preflop.

[Ty Webb]

Sorry about that. I meant to say after I limped and he raised. With regard to reraising, I've found more often than not that a reraise UTG kills all my action. Granted I'll only limp reraise AA and occasionally KK, but feel like at the 2/4 and above, this move just doesn't work very well. Thanks for the input and I'll be interested to hear the responses.

[aces_full]

I would usually push here, but then again I don't play 2/4 and above, and at the lower limits, anyone who raises pre-flop is often willing to go all in with any hand they would raise with.

I would say if you think making too big a raise kills your action, how about a min re-raise? Followed by a pot sized bet on the flop. I just don't like calling,especailly with the best (but vulnerable) hand. I'm going to charge my opponents a hefty price to try and outrun me every time.

[Goodie]

I don't mind the limp and non-reraise before the flop. If you did re-raise pre-flop, it would scream AA and since you have only one opponent, you can take a chance with a flop.

On the flop, I would tend to check raise, if he bets pot, then double his bet. It will look like you have KQ or QJ and are trying to see where you are.

With your line of play, I think I would have pushed after he raised to 152. He's committed himself and won't fold so you mind as well get it all in now. I don't see any reason to let him check or bet less on the turn. Just get him to call your whole stack. Seems silly to call 100 more on the flop and 108 on the turn and leave yourself only a small amount.

Your commited so you mind as well put it all in on the flop.

Peace

Goodie

[schwza]

[ QUOTE ]

With your line of play, I think I would have pushed after he raised to 152. He's committed himself and won't fold


[/ QUOTE ]

this is only true if MP1 isn't very good. he's put in less than 1/3 of hero's stack, so he should fold an OESD or a flush draw (MP1 can't have nut flush draw). (folding these hands out is a good justification for 3-betting).

but MP1 could also have 88-JJ and trying to find where he stands. you'd like to keep them around cause they're drawing very slim and might take another shot on the turn, but 3-betting will force them to fold.

and of course, the hand MP1 actually had, AQ, will probably call a moderate 3-bet and wind up doubling hero through, or at least donating a lot more.

i'd 3-bet the flop.

also i'd personally raise AA utg, but that's mostly cause i raise a lot, so i may as well raise with the goods.

[Mackas]

I think you played this fine after the flop, I probably would have reraised preflop but from then on it was fine. One of the biggest leaks that people have at the NL cash tables is getting tied to big pairs. I lost a lot of money that way for while, reviewed the whole situation, and have slowed down a bit in my play of them since. Well, I now actually play them a lot more aggressively preflop and on the flop, slowing down if someone is still with me on the turn. Slowing down, mind you, not necessarily throwing them away, and a good way to do this where appropriate is to check call.

You have to be particularly careful with your big pairs when the money is deep, as both you and your opponent are in this case. When the betting gets heavy after the flop you'll never be quite sure where you are unless your opponent is maniac, who else bets heavily after the flop with less than two pair or at worst TPTK? You don't want to blow your whole stack and hard work to date on one pair of cracked aces.

This is stars, not party so the complete maniac is more or less out. This means (a) he had a legitimate raising hand preflop to raise you with and (b) the flop either hit him or was kind to him to justify his betting on the flop. Given his large raise preflop I think you can eliminate 55 and 66. Given his raise preflop and action on the flop I would put him on QQ, AQ, KK or AA. Even KQs would not have justified his preflop raise I would have thought so it is still a possibility.

The import of this is that you are either way ahead on the flop and he is virtually drawing dead or he is already ahead of you. Therefore there is no harm in giving him a cheap card as he is not on much of a chance to outdraw you. This is the normal justification for pushing on the flop for exmaple if there are str8 draws or flush draws out there or just a dangerous board that missed you. In this case I can see no real draw that he would have. You have A clubs, and Qc is on board and so to have hit a flush draw he would have had to have raised w KJs or worse preflop. Nor is he likely to have raised like that with 78, 34 or 74.

Sooooo, if you push on the flop all you do is chase out a hand that was probably drawing dead to you or walk right into a hand that has you in a corner. Taking all that into consideration I think by check calling you allow the weaker hands to bet into you increasing your profit in those situations and hopefully minmise losses in those were you are not. If he pushes all in you have a tougher decision, though, but thankfully in this case it didn't come to that.

So all in all I would have reraised preflop but think you played the rest of the hand fine. Just because you won in the end doesn't mean you should start thinking you should have pushed. If you push every time in this situtaion too often you allow him to release a weaker hand or end up looking down the barrel of a better hand. I agree, for the record that a push on the flop is often right with an overpair, just not in this situation for the reasons above.

Just be glad he turned over AQ at the end instead of getting greedy and dreaming about what you might have won. I think you played it well and took down a nice pot.

GL

Mackas

[Goodie]

You played it fine.

[turnipmonster]

I feel like the most debatable part of this hand is the lack of a turn checkraise, assuming you are committed to this hand.

I like the way you played it, but wonder if an allin checkraise on the turn isn't better.

if you're not going to limp reraise, at least openraise preflop.
--turnipmonster

[fsuplayer]

[ QUOTE ]
if you're not going to limp reraise, at least openraise preflop.


[/ QUOTE ]

You beat me to it Turnipmonster.

[ QUOTE ]
how about a min re-raise

[/ QUOTE ]

Just as in a live NL hand posted here two weeks ago (at the Borgata maybe)...

"Friends dont let friends min-raise aces".

That includes a open min raise, and especially a min-limp-reraise.

That tells the opponent exactly what you have, and giving them great odds to call with almost any two cards to try and break you.

BTW I like the play, but CR all in on the turn if you are going to call anyways. If not, you have to bet that river for value, as the guy slowed way down on the turn and obviously doesnt have a monster.

FsuPlayer