Limping with ATo

[Jeffage]

First hand is the easiest raise in the world preflop against one very loose limper. Your ace high could win without improving heads up...with more players in, it's more likely you have to hit to win. The hand is much easier to play heads up...get the trash out.

Jeff

[MarkD]

If you raise pre-flop here you really can't make a mistake. You put UTG all-in and see a showdown heads-up.

Even if UTG has chips I don't see how not raising allows you to not make mistakes post-flop while raising does. I raise here 100% of the time though so am willing to listen but I don't see any logical reason to think not raising makes this hand easier to play somehow.

[BottlesOf]

Can anyone construct a scenario where it is best to limp with ATo?

[me454555]

I think the limp is fine in this position. You mentioned that UTG is loose and so is SB. A raise probobly wont get it heads up so it looses a lot of value there. I think the pf raise looses a lot when the players are loose b/c they will most likely call your flop bet if they hit the flop at all. Against 2 opponents, thats a likely call by at least one.

I like limping here b/c it would encourage them to bet the flop w/somehing like 2nd pair or an A w/a weaker kicker than yours. It also makes the hand much easier to play post flop IMO.

[nepenthe]

In hand 2, I bet the flop.

[Ron]

Hi, hand 2 raise [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Hand 1 with your read on players and your position RAISE [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img], but maybe you would have lost 1 sb.

[StellarWind]

Definitely raise hand 1 preflop. How can it be wrong? Very loose/semi-aggressive almost guarentees you have a better hand than UTG. That SB will call with anything is an especially good reason to raise because he is taking totally the worst of it. You haven't described BB yet, but why are you happy letting him play for free?

I don't understand how calling makes the hand easier to play. Raising often makes your problems go away before you realize they exist:

Flop: Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] T [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

SB checks, BB bets, UTG calls, ...

I have no idea what you should do. If you had raised preflop BB might well have folded and this never comes up.

I never understood those who say that if you raise preflop you have to bet postflop. Yes it is often a good idea but that's hardly the same thing. When it's -EV to bet, don't bet. If it's +EV to bet, why are you complaining?

[mikewvp]

My personal opinion and I am open to criticism, fold hand 1 preflop. Hand two was played perfectly, unless there is a chance your opponents will fold I think it is incredibly stupid to semi bluff a draw, you want to see the cards for as cheaply as possible when drawing.

[balkii]

[ QUOTE ]
My personal opinion and I am open to criticism, fold hand 1 preflop. Hand two was played perfectly, unless there is a chance your opponents will fold I think it is incredibly stupid to semi bluff a draw, you want to see the cards for as cheaply as possible when drawing.

[/ QUOTE ]

- Folding ATo on the button after 1 bad playing limper is a pretty bad idea

- You need to read the chapter on semibluffing in TOP. Hero would very much like to win the pot by spiking one of his overcards, in addition to his flush outs. If semibluffing the flop could cause a hand like KT or J9 to fold, hero has made a very profitable play.

[Monty Cantsin]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Why do you have to bet the flop and turn?

[/ QUOTE ]

Because these guys will chase without looking at their cards ?

[/ QUOTE ]

Isn't this a reason not to bet?

If your opponents are almost certainly not going to fold, one of the advantages of betting has been removed.

/mc