Folding too quickly?

ThePimpulator · #1 06-18-2004, 02:41 AM

Im unbelievably card dead right now though I have been very disciplined and have not lost too much at all. However, because this is the longest dead period ive had, combined with bad beats and unfortunate instances of legitimate bigger hands against me when I finally do get a hand, im a little concerned that im starting to fold a bit too soon. I dont want to be playing like a beaten man. What do you think about these hands.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (8 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is Button with J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
4 folds, CO calls, Hero raises, 1 fold, BB calls, CO calls.

Flop: (6.50 SB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, CO checks, Hero bets, BB raises, CO calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (6.25 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB bets, CO calls, Hero folds.

Dont know what to think about this one.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (8 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is CO with Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
3 folds, MP2 calls, Hero raises, 2 folds, BB 3-bets, MP2 folds, Hero caps, BB calls.

Flop: (9.50 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB bets, Hero raises, BB 3-bets, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 7.25 BB

I think I played this one OK.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG calls, 2 folds, Hero calls, MP3 calls, 2 folds, SB completes, BB checks,

Flop: (5 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets, MP3 calls, SB calls, BB calls, UTG calls.

Turn: (5 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, Hero checks, MP3 checks.

River: (5 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets, MP3 raises, SB folds, BB folds, UTG folds, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 8 BB

As for this one, well I dont know. Folding a flush on the river. Dont think ive ever done this when there are only three flush cards on the board. My feel at the time was that he had just called the flop bet, he checked behind on the turn, then on the river he had auto raise on; my bet was raised instantly. I just had this feel that he was hanging in for the flush. And looking at it now it seems obvious. Tell me it was a good lay down! Or, ignoring any kind of feel I may have had, was it mathematically correct to call the final bet?

jrobb83 · #2 06-18-2004, 03:51 AM

Hand 1:

I think this is fine. Player dependant, but you won't loose a great deal of money doing this. There is a queen out there, and most wont check-raise a preflop raisor with high cards on board without top pair.

Hand 2:

I'd take on off a card on the flop, you can get a bunch of bets on the latter two streets if you hit your Q, plus he may do something like check to you on the turn.

Hand 3:

Yuck!! I would never lay down a flush for one more bet on the river, even in a smallish pot like this. When it's checked through on the turn, who knows what he hit that thinks is good on the river. Two pair and set are most definately possible. Call this all day and night and don't think twice.

crockpot · #3 06-18-2004, 05:57 AM

i can't understand why you would call the flop with your jacks and then fold on the turn when you probably have three times as many outs, the pot is bigger, and the bet is only twice the size it was on the flop. if you think you're beaten when you get raised, there's no need to throw away $2 calling the flop bet. and if you think there's some reasonable chance you're ahead, you have a clear call on the turn.

i think the queens were played fine unless the opponent is a total maniac.

as for the 76s, i probably fold it in this situation unless the game is loose-passive. and i would be willing to call one more bet on the river. the chances of your opponent showing up with a rivered two pair or a set of fours are too good, and he may even have slowplayed a straight. with eight big bets in there i make a crying call.

bernie · #4 06-18-2004, 09:41 AM

[ QUOTE ]
as for the 76s, i probably fold it in this situation unless the game is loose-passive.

[/ QUOTE ]

Dont you mean loose aggressive? Loose passives generally will not raise this without a flush. Passives dont get tricky on river bets with lesser hands. They dont bet str8s when a flush is possible. They go into their little hole hoping their hand holds up. Missing bets all the way.

That said, im still calling it unless i have a very good read on the opponent.

b

junkmail3 · #5 06-18-2004, 10:17 AM

For the first two, I would fold almost automatically with those flops and that action. A big problem people have is holding onto pocket pairs that are beat. If you raise TT pre-flop and Q J x fall, you have six cards that beat you, plus 8 more that can come that will beat you (aside from all the other flushes/straigts that could come of this). Don't hang onto pocket pairs that aren't going anywhere.

Flush: For one bet, call. I would probably put in a raise, you have a good chance of having the best hand.

fnord_too · #6 06-18-2004, 10:55 AM

Hand 1 - I don't fold here. I usually read check raises on the flop as vulnerable, maybe top pair weak kicker or second pair big kicker. You most likely have 6 outs if you are not ahead right now. Hard to figure what the CO has, but you are definitely getting odds to call the turn.

Hand 2 - I play that the same way I think.

Hand 3 - No way in hell I fold that. IF you are going to fold to a reraise, you should check call here. Way too many hands he can raise with that you have beat. Now a check call could end up getting you a couple more bets in the pot, but I definitely bet/call here. (If MP3 had you beat his raise was a mistake, since he had a higher expectation from the potential overcalls.)