Help please ..20/40 on paradise

[nopepper]

Keep in mind, raiser is a maniac

Game #523399431 - $20/$40 Texas Hold'em - 2004/06/17-05:04:51 (CST)
Table "Mamanuca" (real money) -- Seat 8 is the button
Seat 3: *Iceman* ($431.00 in chips)
Seat 4: TomOb ($245.00 in chips)
Seat 6: estopel ($279.00 in chips)
Seat 8: FlipME ($1,303.00 in chips)
Seat 9: Pyatachok ($1,197.00 in chips)
Seat 10: NOPEPPER187 ($357.00 in chips)
Pyatachok: Post Small Blind ($10)
NOPEPPER187: Post Big Blind ($20)
Dealing...
Dealt to NOPEPPER187 [ 8s ]
Dealt to NOPEPPER187 [ Ah ]
*Iceman*: Call ($20)
TomOb : Fold
estopel : Raise ($40)
FlipME : Fold
Pyatachok: Fold
NOPEPPER187: Call ($20)
*Iceman*: Call ($20)
*** FLOP *** : [ As Js Tc ]
NOPEPPER187: Check
*Iceman*: Check
estopel : Bet ($20)
NOPEPPER187: Raise ($40)
*Iceman*: Call ($40)
estopel : Call ($20)
*** TURN *** : [ As Js Tc ] [ Qs ]
NOPEPPER187: Check
*Iceman*: Bet ($40)
estopel : Fold
NOPEPPER187: Call ($40)
*** RIVER *** : [ As Js Tc Qs ] [ Qc ]
NOPEPPER187: Check
*Iceman*: Bet ($40)
NOPEPPER187: Fold
*Iceman*: Winner -- doesn't show cards
*** SUMMARY ***
Pot: $327 | Rake: $3
Board: [ As Js Tc Qs Qc ]
*Iceman* bet $160, collected $367, net +$207
TomOb didn't bet (folded)
estopel lost $80 (folded)
FlipME didn't bet (folded)
Pyatachok lost $10 (folded)
NOPEPPER187 lost $120 (folded) [ 8s Ah ] (two pair, aces and queens)

Comments on all streets welcome

[rigoletto]

Yes you need help all right!

Firstly youll find help here to post more comprehensively: Handdecoder

Secondly: move down in limits!

[Zele]

Pre-Flop: don't call the raise.

Flop: Fold.

Turn: Fold.

River: Calling turn and folding river is literally incomprehensible to me.

Last time I checked, the $20/$40 games at Paradise are pretty tough. I would also suggest a step down, to at least $5/$10 or below. If you play most of your hands like this, look to something like $2/$4, and buy Ed Miller's new book.

[Bandorn]

If the c/r on flop was for value, I dont like. But if it was planned to nock out iceman, I do. When He bets out after being C/R, I think a fold was in order.

But on whole I think you where behind, preflop. I keep wondering what a preflop raiser with a early position caller would raise with. Im thinking Ace ,better kicker. But his turn fold, says no.Maybe yuor up, But at flop yuo cant now this. The Turn call was bad. Not only is flush draw out there ,but any K makes a straight.Just a bit loose IMHA.

[nopepper]

Ban,

My check raise on the flop was to get out mp. I had no fear of pre flop raiser as I have seen him raise 6 consec hands pre flop. I wanted to get heads up with the raiser. Once mp called I knew i was behind. When the turn spade fell i was hoping another would fall and my 8 hold up. When it didnt fall on the river thats why i mucked.

[DcifrThs]

nopepper, without even READING the whole post here i can tell you two things:

1) don't post unfiltered hand histories...this has been hashed and rehashed...repost them in either prose or with bison's hand history converter.

2) stop playing the 20 game on paradise. judging by your posts you are in no way shape or form ready for this game. it gets isolating/aggressive, tricky, and is something i played and quit after making $800 in 55-60 hours. its a tougher game than the party games by leaps and bounds (unless you can follow a few players who i'd love to follow but didn't devote the time to...then you -meaning a good player, not you you- can probably make much more than i did).

now...onto your hand...

preflop: you never mentioned what ICEMAN's requirements are...but if he knew he had a maniac behind him he may open limp hoping to be raised by said maniac with a very good hand. then the maniac raised leaving you with a garbage hand in the blinds that does very very poorly in that spot. this is why you are not ready for this game...FOLD THAT [censored] HAND!! if it was JUST YOU AND THE MANIAC and he raised from LMP or the CO/Button then go ahead and reraise or call and have a plan for the hand...but your preflop play here is attrocious, especially b/c you're out of position for the rest of the hand...at the VERY LEAST, if you DO DECIDE to play the hand, for god's sake, reraise and get iceman outta there.

flop: whew, iceman just called after your bb call so you got lucky he doesn't have a monster he could have had. so now you decide to checkraise this draw laden flop vs. a maniac and an open limper...since you decided to play, bet out and see what iceman does...you want him OUT OF THIS HAND and c-r'ing the maniac was at least a good plan...but it didn't work so FOLD!! but since you carried through the c-r, bet the turn also since you played it kinda like a draw.

Turn: again, bet the turn given flop play, if you're raised, easy lay down...if you're called by maniac check and call the river, if you're called by iceman, check and fold river. but you have to bet here given your play.

river: how can you NOT CALL after calling the turn...lay it down on the turn or call the river...but not BOTH!!...this just goes to show how being out of position with crap really sucks.

conclusion: go way the hell down in limits to learn the game, then come back up after thousands of hours of play and hundreds of thousands of hands.

this post may be harsh but you NEED to hear it.

-Barron

[nopepper]

Guys,

No doubt I am out of my league here. I got greddy, was making a killing on the 5-10 games (ran $100 buy in into $785 in 2 days 3 hours each day) so I wanted to step up. I would have played 10-20 but the game was full so I figured I would take a shot.

I aprectaie your post and comments. Next time I will post the hand with the convertor (had no idea it was even here).

[DcifrThs]

for the love of god, heed the advice of those who have been around for a while (not including myself b/c i'd consider myself an improving mediocre to decent player in the advanced scheme of things that the limits you're talking about suggesting) move WAY THE HELL DOWN in limits.

785 bucks IS NOTHING in a 5/10 game as you shoul dhave $3000 to even consider playing and more in your case given the knowledge you've displayed in your posts...i'd like to have 5grand to play 5/10 if i were you....

move down...2/4 or below i'd suggest.

-Barron

[nykenny]

[ QUOTE ]
Yes you need help all right!

Firstly youll find help here to post more comprehensively: Handdecoder

Secondly: move down in limits!

[/ QUOTE ]

ha...

calling an early raise (or any raise not from a stealing position) with A8o in BB is bad. play tighter! or move down in limits - namely Party Poker 15-30 [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[DcifrThs]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Yes you need help all right!

Firstly youll find help here to post more comprehensively: Handdecoder

Secondly: move down in limits!

[/ QUOTE ]

ha...

calling an early raise (or any raise not from a stealing position) with A8o in BB is bad. play tighter! or move down in limits - namely Party Poker 15-30 [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

i like it! move on "down in limits - namely Party Poker 15-30"

im sure i speak for all of us when i say we can't wait to see you there lol.
-Barron