Quest Hand #5 - KTo (1st hand at the table)

[Tilt-a-Whirl]

This is a common type of hand for me
overcard River, not the KTo [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]


Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (10 handed)

Preflop: Tilt-a-Whirl is MP1 with K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. Tilt-a-Whirl posts a blind of $3.
UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, Tilt-a-Whirl (poster) checks, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, CO calls, Button calls, SB folds, BB checks.

Flop: (6.33 SB) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(6 players)</font>
BB checks, UTG+1 checks, UTG+2 checks, <font color="CC3333">Tilt-a-Whirl bets</font>, CO calls, Button folds, BB folds, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 folds.

Turn: (4.66 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
UTG+1 checks, <font color="CC3333">Tilt-a-Whirl bets</font>, CO calls, UTG+1 folds.

River: (6.66 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
Tilt-a-Whirl checks, <font color="CC3333">CO bets</font>, Tilt-a-Whirl calls.

Final Pot: 8.66 BB
<font color="green">Main Pot: 8.66 BB, between Tilt-a-Whirl and CO.</font>


bet on the river? check/call?, check fold?

the problem with the check is that I could be inducing a bluff from someone with just kings. Perhaps the answer to to keep betting and fold to a raise. I've tried that too and found myslef calling the raise.....

I just hate the "catastrophe" of folding a winning hand...

How do you play the river?

[JohnShaft]

I think you made *one* mistake. Posting out of Turn in EMP.

The River bet would have been OK, and maybe preferable. Knowing typical players though you could easily be getting called down by someone with AJ/A9, in which case you'll get raised. The checks OK really, and the bet would have been too.

[ QUOTE ]
the problem with the check is that I could be inducing a bluff from someone with just kings.

[/ QUOTE ]
I have no idea what you mean here. If he had Kings it wouldn't be a bluff, and you don't care if he does bluff as you're calling anyway. In fact you want him to bluff the River. It's really the only value in checking the River.


The only move I really don't like is the Post out of Turn. The rest is more or less fine.

[goofball]

the problem with betting out on the river is if he raises it's likely you are beat but to fold is weak tight. checkfolding this river is also weak tight. If the ace doesn't come i'm betting all the way, but since the ace did come i like your check/call. It induces a bluff from someone who missed their draw with somethine like JT or T9, it saves you a bet if you are beat by AT or AJ. He'll be almost every single hand that beats your with the possible exception of KQ here, but he'll also bet a lot of hands you beat. He may also bet some hands he would have folded had you bet out on the river.

The last reason is the best one for the check/call.

[JohnShaft]

[ QUOTE ]
It induces a bluff from someone who missed their draw with somethine like JT or T9, it saves you a bet if you are beat by AT or AJ.

[/ QUOTE ]
Actually I don't think he'll bet with JT/T9 here goofball. I considered if he'd bet the River as a bluff from a missed draw (but it would have to be a gutshot) so it's unlikely.

The hands you mentioned he won't bluff with because it isn't a bluff. If he has either of them he'll take the free showdown because he has a fair pair to show down. He'll only bet them if he thinks he has the best hand, because he knows you'll call him with *any* hand that beats his 3rd/4th pair.

[Tilt-a-Whirl]

Maybe me saying "inducing a bluff" wasnt totally correct. What I meant was he could be representing an Ace. and I guess that would only matter if I folded.

But I'm sure at least half the time they'll have a missed draw or a K.

I think what brought this hand up is that I'm having trouble getting over a hump, where I have been break even for several months and I am trying to soldify my game. In trying to do this, I thought maybe I was calling down too much at the river and wanted input.

check/call or bet...

It does seem for this hand that either is probably ok....

I admit I have a bad habit of posting early [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]


btw

He shows A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] and takes the pot. Another party River steal [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[Ron]

Hi, playing the river started with pre flop. With a hand like KT I raise or fold. The CO has A 9 . or AJ [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]